Quick Question! Why the hell not?

[Choark]

<FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Or Why bother?
So ehTHIS! Should I, I say, should I buy it or what?

<span style="font-size:xx-small;">(Told ya it was quick)</span></FONT><FORM method=post action="http://p068.ezboard.com/frpgww60462frm3.processVote?topicID=5021.topic"><table border=0 cellpadding=3 cellspacing=0 width="55%"><tbody><tr><td><input type="radio" name="choice" value="1"><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Yes</FONT></td></tr><tr><td><input type="radio" name="choice" value="2"><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>No</FONT></td></tr><tr><td><input type="radio" name="choice" value="3"><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Maybe!?</FONT></td></tr><tr><td><input type="radio" name="choice" value="4"><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Wut?</FONT></td></tr><tr><td><input type="radio" name="choice" value="5"><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Pedobear is hungry</FONT></td></tr></tbody></table><P><input type=submit value="Vote"></form>Show results</FONT> <p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
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[Capntastic]

You could probably do everything that thing does with Photoshop.

[Choark]

Except it inks/sketches better in it.
And doing Panels is easier/better as well.
Built in tones and stuff is good too.
Actually built just for Manga rather then image refining like Photoshop is.
Raster (or something) lines for fun and profit.

Its defiantly better for Manga making if nothing else.

A review of it

No colour mode in it though.

But yeah, you probably could...

*shrugs* <p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
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[Capntastic]

Why spend money on a program that is made for one thing when you can use a program that's made for everything?

If there's one thing I've learned about art, it's that equipment is 4% of the finished product. You're a good enough artist so as to be able to do amazing things in most mediums without fancy doodad computer programs. It is for this reason alone that I say that you'd be a danged fool to go out and buy this horrible program made to prey on the insecurities of growing artists.

>: A DANGED FOOL

[Choark]

And as God as my witness: I AM THAT FOOL!

<span style="font-size:xx-small;">Also this is the thing thats actually used by quite a few peeps/professionals in Japan - cause that automatically makes it better 'n stuff</span> <p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
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[Capntastic]

But do you really need it? Will you be using it constantly? Will you really need that $50 chunk taken out of your wallet to allow you to digitally ink slightly better, or to make slightly better frames? You're a swell fella', and I think that it'd be a waste of time and cash to even consider buying a specialised program for something like this when you'd be much better off getting something that's good at everything.

[Idran1701]

You did say "probably", Zero. You know that for a fact? :O <p><hr />
"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
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[ikozaedro]

hmm, it could help you at first, but, think about it, do you really want your stuff to look "prefab", like all out of the same mold? because thats what it is going to look like with some time.
if you want it for guide lines its ok, but using this thing 100% would kind of kill that special/personal touch, wouldn't it? <p><div style="text-align:center">
my deviant art thingy!
quote:
"-Lili! a deranged man is building an army of psychic death tanks to take over the world and there is nobody who can stop him except for you and me!
-Oh my god! LET'S MAKE OUT!"-Raz and Lili, Psychonauts</div>
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[Choark]

Of course techically I shouldn't be using Photoshop at all considering *mumble*<span style="font-size:xx-small;">Idon'townit</span>*mumble* Though my Ma does own Painter 8 so by default I do too (despite techically I shouldn't be doing that either)!

But Aye! And at least you were looking at the cheap one, I was looking at the EX version of Doom! DOOM! DOOOOOOOOM!

But would I use it? Maybe!? But enough to warrent spending all that money!? Probably not!? Would I try to justify the cost by using it more then I might of done and thus actual use it as much as I should!? Maybe?! Have I actually ever done any amount of Manga stuff!? NOO!? So why the question on buying it!? Because I know I probably shouldn't but that small fanboy part of me really, really wants it and he won't shut up and i've been drawing more recently and I may end up doing something for fun but enough to warrent £206!? I don't know!! Having a job and a bonus means money is burning my pocket!? Almost definatly!! Is the debute one pretty cheap by my standards!? OH YES! I still know I probably shouldn't but part of me really does and my head is going Waaah plus i'm bored at work and AARRGGHHHHHH.

Edit: Took so long to reply to that one I missed the others!

Idran: Techically you can but certain things are a lot harder and more fiddley to do, while in that some things are incredibilly easier to do n stuff. For example, techically you can do computer arts in Photoshop however the Painter series is made espically to recreate real life type art, eg water colours, to such a degree that it feels like using it. Now Photoshop can end up doing the same but it would take a lot more effort and time to what Painter can do in a stroke. Stuff like that.

Glu: Well Manga dudes in Japland can use it without all looking the same (depending on who ya ask). Afterall my personal style of drawing won't change. Thats kinda like saying all people who use Photoshop CG the same - and all those who use Painter is the same. Tis just another tool, only this is more specialised in a certain area. <p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
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<div style="text-align:center"> </div></p>Edited by: Choark&nbsp; at: 6/12/06 17:54

[Capntastic]

Well, it's your money! Feel free to spend it :D

[Choark]

I am attacked by you common sense!
<span style="color:red;">*Choark is Weak vs Common sense X10 damage*</span>
<span style="color:red;"> *Critical* </span>
<span style="color:orange;"> *9999 OVERKILL* </span>

X_x Barf

<span style="font-size:xx-small;"> (Well two/three people have tried to talk me out of it.... will that be enough to stop me doing it!? Damn you money! DAMN YOU I SAY!) </span>
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[ikozaedro]

oh, well you got me there, while i was talking about paneling and stuff like that, you logic is pretty much valid.

edit!
but then again, just as i've been saying on your DA page, your actually cg-ing style looks pretty pro manga already. <p><div style="text-align:center">
my deviant art thingy!
quote:
"-Lili! a deranged man is building an army of psychic death tanks to take over the world and there is nobody who can stop him except for you and me!
-Oh my god! LET'S MAKE OUT!"-Raz and Lili, Psychonauts</div>
</p>Edited by: ikozaedro&nbsp; at: 6/12/06 18:08

[Choark]

Well imagine then how much more pro it look by me spending either £25 or £206!?

...

*coughs* <p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
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[Capntastic]

But pros make money from their art, not spend money to make it.

[Ganonfro]

...Well, the people that do Van Von Hunter use it, so it can't be all bad...

[Choark]

<blockquote>A silly Quote:

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But pros make money from their art, not spend money to make it.

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</blockquote>
Thats a really silly thing to say. I mean, really silly. You have thought about how silly that was to say, and why, haven't you?

Ganon: The quality of the program isn't much in question! It is a high industry standard piece of goodness so yeah! <p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
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<div style="text-align:center"> </div></p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=choark>Choark</A]&nbsp; at: 6/12/06 18:19

[Idran1701]

I think pros do both, Zero. Even a canvas and paints cost money. <p><hr />
"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
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[RedEye Dragon89]

Hokay. On first startup, the damn thing punched me in the gut and told my I didn't have enough memory. Great first impression.

I think Zero's got the right of it. After some fiddling with the tools, I wasn't able to see anything that couldn't be easily done in Photoshop. Even the tones, as convenient as they may be, could be done in PS by just defining a pattern and using the paintbucket (and if you play your cards right, you can do it without the dreaded lasso tool.)

It might have been a tablet initialization problem, but all the pens, pencils, and brushes seemed very much alike. They would change opacity or thickness according pen pressure and the like. Tilt, too, if you're one of those lucky bastards who could afford an Intuos (which might be a better alternative); but all in all, nothing I haven't seen before.

Colors are limited to sixteen monochromatic shades. I know it's geared towards manga, but I don't quite see that as a redeeming feature.

However, there were a few nifty filters. The focus lines were pretty rad, and the speed line filter would save a lot of effort. But what was the awesomest were the vanishing point and perspective rulers. With these you can set points with infinitely long, radiating lines that could be used as perspective guidelines. There was even an option that would snap all lines drawn according to the perspective guides, which was pretty damn cool. Though, I'm pretty sure there's a way to rig Photoshop to do the same; I'll have to look into it.

If you're dead set on getting this regardless, better stick with the Debut version. Though I think the money'd be better spent on an Intuos, or Alias Sketchbook, or a bag of lollipops.

Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=redeyedragon89@rpgww60462>RedEye]&nbsp; at: 6/12/06 22:00

[NamagomiMk0]

Fear Pedobear, for he is hungry. And Pedobear. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

[Choark]

My first setp up went smoothly, though the amount of windows man! Wah!

There was an extra nifty feature on the tones though. With a click of a button you could change it from Dot tones, to square, to diamond, to line, etchings or crosses. Thats pretty darn neat. Also the Pen tool IS a lot better then the one found in Photoshop, at least that's what I found. There are a few different types, including one that reminds me of Flash where it smooths out the curving for you, and I have a Wacom Tablet but it seems to be able to reconise when I'm holding my pen at an angle or not. The hardest thing was actually realising my hand isn't all that steady so some of my lines were not all that smooth and I wasn't sure how to get the line smoother to work. Ho hum.

One of the things I noticed is you have to say whether the Layer is a Sketch/some-other-word or A Finish. The Finish allowing you to use the pens to an awsome degree and the sketch is fitting its name with lines not being able to be done awsomely. As for the lack of colour, I'm not too bothered by that as quite honestly there's no way in hell I'd ever do a full colour comic. Ah my head cries thinking about it.

Problem with the debut version is its missing some of the better features for it thats making me go Ooooooh nice. One being the Word Balloons. Comparison Chart The 3D models for poses you can get as well seems pretty damn helpful as well but I'm looking into what that actually is as I haven't seen it in action yet. Still that would stop a headache or three in and of itself.

As it has said though, you CAN do most of the stuff elsewhere, just no where near as easily or as quick, so it all coms down to, if I did get it, would I use it enough to justify the expense? Also bare in mind this was orginally posted by me being deeply bored at work. I needed voices of reason then or by George I was ready to order it then and there! Thinking about it though - Paying £206 pound for an easier inking, balloon making, panel layouting, perpestive helping, character guidlineing thing may be a bit silly. Or not. I'm still wavering.


As I said, not too bad, except I missed a o in too, but &pound;206 for not too bad. HMMMM ~_~

If I go by my personal results, including this poll, then Ive:
Had 1 yes, but he was very enthusastic about it.
Had 2 no's
Had 4 Maybe's
A Wut
And 2 Pedobears

Thanks to Zero, Glu and Red and everyone else as well for actually bothering to reply!

Also yes, Pedobear is hungry! <p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
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<div style="text-align:center"> </div></p>Edited by: Choark&nbsp; at: 6/13/06 8:10

[Jak Snide]

Momentary disappointment at buying something for more than it's worth vs nagging feeling in your gut that says "I WANT IT" for the rest of your days.

[Choark]

*laughs*

Oh you diabolical bastard! <p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
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[BrainWalker]

I had no idea such a thing even existed. That's pretty friggin' sweet. I'd be all over suggesting you buy it if it weren't for the fact that all creative software is ridiculously overpriced and I have never been able to justify that. <p><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

[RebelKitsune]

You know what I say?

Do the same thing you did with Photoshop.

You use that a lot anyway, and I'm sure that still doesn't warrant its ridiculous pricetag. If you want to spend money on something, use it on Photoshop, because you already know how much you use that. (I use italics so you know I mean business)

It's tempting me too, but honestly, does the program really save you £206 worth of the extra work you need to make your own templates and tones in Photoshop? I don't think so, Cho.

Think about that. <p><div style="text-align:center">
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</div></p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rebelkitsune>RebelKitsune</A]&nbsp; at: 6/13/06 11:55

[Choark]

BW: Aye, they do ask for an arm and a leg for these things don't they? Bloody bastards! But it is sweet, which is why I'm all @_@ cause I have the money I just don't know it its really worth it all!

ZeHentaiFurry: Photoshop is like twice the price of MangaStudio and I've been leaning to try and not use it all that much these days (I'm disliking the non legal part of it more and more). But aye!! And AYE! AND I KNOW and *breaks down in tears* ;__; But I'm soooo weak! <p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
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[PriamNevhausten]

*Votes for Mentos* <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

[Endesu]

I do not post to argue for or against it.

Instead I post to note: I'm sure they'll make a fine bundle of cash by selling 'Manga' anything, even if it is basically a redressed Photoshop. Good on their business savvy! <p><hr />
<div style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:xx-small;">Curtis: Dannyboy, look at you. You've changed considerably, into a badass, if I may.
Dan: Yeah, you've changed a lot too, into an old man! I went to see the devil, now it's your turn!
Curtis: Oh, my pupil, so tenacious of life, guess I have to kill you again.
Dan: Shut up, before you run out of breath!
Curtis: I got rid of those smiles, there's no one left to disturb our game. Just you, and me.
Dan: Sounds fair, 'cuz I hate holding back, even for an old fart like yourself.
Curtis: Talk all you want, I won't need six bullets for you.
Dan: Or four for you.</span>
</div></p>

[Choark]

This is probably true!

But I've always admitted to my obvious Manga fandom! I mean damn man I own:
How to...
Getting Started
Tones
Compiling Characters
Dressing Chaarcters
Shoujo Techiques
Martial Arts
Super Basics
Colour Drawing
Maids and Miko
Giant Robots Sis got me this one!! =D
Super Tones!
Chibi vol 1
Female Characters
Bishoujo Characters
Bishoujo around the world
Illustrating Battles
Bodies and Anatomy
Making Anime Just out of interest
Male Characters
Couples
More Pretty Girls
Costumes vol 2
Costumes Vol 3
Flash Techiques
Manga and Games Vol 1 Basic
Manga and Games vol 2 Emotion
Manga and Games Action
Manga and Games Battles
Manga and Games Bishoujo

So yeah, I'm there bitch! Admittidly I'm sorta just collecting them for some reason but YEAH! MANGA! WOOO! LETS BUY IT!

To be fair its not just a rehash of Photoshop so yay for that. <p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
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[RebelKitsune]

Holy Christ on a stick. Cho, that's insane. Now I can see why you're finding it hard to just say no.

It sounds a lot like most smoking addicts' situation - only with bigger eyes and less lung cancer.

Either way, I prefer an illegal, yet far better equipped Choark, rather than a legal, £206 poorer, less eqiupped one. <p><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

[Capntastic]

This guy up here above me is correct. Cheap as free is good for things.