A voice in the dark...

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A voice in the dark...

Unread postby CronoLuminaire » Mon May 19, 2003 8:09 pm

As some of you may or may not be aware, I have a character named Eskei, sometimes referred to as "Sakegungami". I have used him in RP for some time, and there were no problems. No complaints.

That changed when one day I played Eskei in an 2nd generation RP, of which a certain Captain was also playing in. Most likely you have heard from said Captain that this character should not exist. Or, you might not have heard anything... about how said Captain told me to basically scrap this character.

I have been facing an internal struggle for awhile, do I simply stand by, or do I take a stand? I refrained from playing Eskei until I could sort this out, but time waits for neither man nor god, and the IC situation was being tailored in such a way to make the situation very unkind when Eskei returns.

I thought I was just one of the "little guys" and that I should resign myself to whatever fate the "powers that be" deicde. But maybe I am not alone:

The following are logs of some conversations that I thought were interesting, will you?

NYWizrd2: I am actually considering self-destructing out though... giving things a break....
Besyanteo: ah. Little burnt out on RP?
NYWizrd2: I've made too many mistakes... I have to figure out how to reconcile them...
NYWizrd2: I'm burnt out on OOC
Besyanteo: ...
Besyanteo: care to elaborate?
NYWizrd2: Not really
NYWizrd2: But I will I suppose
Besyanteo: k.
NYWizrd2: Eskei, the personality is solid
NYWizrd2: Eskei the concept...
NYWizrd2: The whole world is comin down on me...
Besyanteo: you mean the thing of Pervy not accepting Eskei as a god or character of Gaera? ::doesn't have specifics on that yet::
NYWizrd2: Not just Cap'n
NYWizrd2: He got everyone together
NYWizrd2: It's like everyone got together and told me a critique of Eskei in the manner of your first crtitique of my drawing...
Besyanteo: ...
NYWizrd2: ANd I know I can't draw
Besyanteo: sorry about that... I honestly know how that goes... I have to console Kristen when people do that to her (and they still do to this day).
NYWizrd2: Do which to her?
NYWizrd2: Critique her art or her characters?
Besyanteo: Tell her almost verbatim: "That pictures sucks. It's just bad."
NYWizrd2: That does'nt make sense to me...
Besyanteo: Neither does it make sense to me, but she still needs support afterwards.
NYWizrd2: Her art is much>>>me
Besyanteo: yes. Just sayying it wasn't a fair critque in either case.
NYWizrd2: Yeah well... unlike in the case of her art...
NYWizrd2: Where people with brains can tell her the truth...
Besyanteo: this also reflects my opinion of the way people are 'critiquing' Eskei.
NYWizrd2: That she is actually good
NYWizrd2: The brainy folk have rallied against me
Besyanteo: You know just two or three years ago, she started out doing the exact same quality work?
NYWizrd2: As what?
Besyanteo: she got to this point in drawing by practicing muchly. ... as your Oekaki.
NYWizrd2: Surprising...
Besyanteo: also: :-/ The brainy folk don't give me the time of day usually, so I don't care much.
NYWizrd2: Most of the people I know around her either are among thier number, or are in good with them...
NYWizrd2: I think Shini counts as one, as does Cap'n...
NYWizrd2: Which is obvious
NYWizrd2: Mostly everyone else...
NYWizrd2: Chibi, Zero, et al, are going to be around them most of the time
Besyanteo: ... actually, it's because of hanging around with Lys and Zero I don't interact with many of the RPGWW higher ups
NYWizrd2: I like haging out with the medium-bees
NYWizrd2: hanging*
NYWizrd2: It's where I see myself...
Besyanteo: heheh.
Besyanteo: ditto
NYWizrd2: So when the powers from on high want to stomp on me... what can I do?
NYWizrd2: I even compromised
Besyanteo: ...?
NYWizrd2: I was willing to seperate Eskei's divine characteristics
NYWizrd2: Eskei would be the god of Sake
NYWizrd2: THe newly created Wess would be the god of guns
NYWizrd2: I could even see myself rarely if ever using Wess
NYWizrd2: But Cap'n wants me to completely un-diefy him
NYWizrd2: un-deify*
NYWizrd2: There is no satisfying these people
Besyanteo: :-/
NYWizrd2: Compromising was my first mistake
NYWizrd2: They see that I am willing to bend... so they don't have to...
NYWizrd2: Now and again Shini and I would have discussions
NYWizrd2: ANd he would report to me the gospel from on high
Besyanteo: ...
NYWizrd2: I would be told I have to give up more
Besyanteo: to be frank, my view is if there's a god of fluffiness and a god of, for lack of a better work, fucking,
NYWizrd2: Yeah
NYWizrd2: Exactly
Besyanteo: there can be a god of alcohol and/or firearms
NYWizrd2: But Cap'n says that since I use him so much
NYWizrd2: He should'nt be divine
Besyanteo: ...
NYWizrd2: Blah bla blah bla ^*(&*($%^ing blah
Besyanteo: personally, I think it's favoritism.
NYWizrd2: You might be right
NYWizrd2: I guess with James I have'nt proved my "worth" enough
NYWizrd2: And Cap'n spoke of it with AM and Adam
NYWizrd2: Two folks who I don't know from... well... Adam
NYWizrd2: As far as RPing goes
Besyanteo: also dunno Adam.
NYWizrd2: I've RPed with AM once for all of 10 minutes
NYWizrd2: With Adam, never
NYWizrd2: So of course they'd agree
NYWizrd2: But the sad state of affairs is...
NYWizrd2: These folks have quite a bit of sway
NYWizrd2: Including with our friends the other Medium-bees
NYWizrd2: Mayhaps even "especially"
NYWizrd2: don't you think so?
Besyanteo: >.> hm. maybe.
NYWizrd2: Is it any wonder now why I feel like self-destructing?
NYWizrd2: ANd the situation with James?
Besyanteo: ::running down the list of Gaeran gods:: 27 total.
Besyanteo: three stick out to me
NYWizrd2: Weeks and weeks since James and Rachel saw each other last
Besyanteo: Great Lord Agnostic, The -- god of strange senses of humor
Besyanteo: Loki -- god of pranks and trickery
Besyanteo: Stacey Fluffigami goddess of fluffiness
Besyanteo: played by, in order:
NYWizrd2: I've seen number three quite a bit
Besyanteo: AM,
Besyanteo: Will,
Besyanteo: and yeah, Mike/White Knight Delta
NYWizrd2: And Kos
NYWizrd2: Echo yeah
NYWizrd2: No no no, nothing like favoritism
NYWizrd2: Not in the least
Besyanteo: ... I'm seriously thinking of making this into a topic on the OOC forum, except you should be the one to do it. :-/
Besyanteo: it's alot harder to pull this shit where everyone can see
NYWizrd2: Not if everyone is on thier side
Besyanteo: not everyone is.
Besyanteo: there are people who don't even facking know about it./
Besyanteo: -/*
NYWizrd2: Yep
NYWizrd2: And proabably if they did
NYWizrd2: They'd think it was good to be rid of him too
Besyanteo: don't be so sure.
Besyanteo: ever see the discussion about new posters in the discussion forum?
NYWizrd2: Not really
Besyanteo: a simple question by Dave turned into a heated debate over how to deal with incoming 'newbies'.
Besyanteo: Pervy being among those who though a form shuld have to be filled out to be here.
Besyanteo: Choark sayying that the idea was appaling.
NYWizrd2: That is appalling...
Besyanteo: FFFan80 (1:22:59 AM): <span style="color:navy;">o_o;</span>
Besyanteo (1:23:02 AM): And Pervy gathers support from people who don't even KNOW NY.
FFFan80 (1:23:15 AM): ...well, Hentaigami I always thought was more of a joke than an actual God
Besyanteo (1:23:54 AM): ::goes to run down the list of Gaeran gods::
Besyanteo (1:25:08 AM): Great Lord Agnostic, The -- god of strange senses of humor
Besyanteo (1:25:20 AM): Loki -- god of pranks and trickery
Besyanteo (1:25:39 AM): Stacey Fluffigami goddess of fluffiness
Besyanteo (1:26:16 AM): oh yes. we need those. e.e but let's beat up on this guy for adding one more to a list of, what, 20?
Besyanteo (1:27:17 AM): ... no, 27. almost 30.
Besyanteo (1:32:29 AM): ::curses James for picking now to hang around behind his back::
FFFan80 (1:32:50 AM): If NY's doing a good job of it, don't back down.
Besyanteo: blah, wanted to get it earlier. still..
Besyanteo: (earlier) Besyanteo (1:22:03 AM): e.e it irks me that DM gets a god of fucking, there's god of fluffiness, and Pervy and others assult NY for having a god of alcohol and firearms.
Besyanteo (1:22:23 AM): a god of firearms and alcohol that hasn'
Besyanteo (1:22:34 AM): thasn't done anything to fuck anything up I might add.*
Besyanteo: that's two high ups I can see who aren't automatically against you.
Besyanteo: right off the bat
NYWizrd2: Cho and True Dave?
Besyanteo: yes.
NYWizrd2: The odds are begining to look more even
NYWizrd2: Maybe I can cheer up after all...
NYWizrd2: And put down that self-destruct button
NYWizrd2: Maybe...
NYWizrd2: And plus also:
NYWizrd2: While I am struggling to change for these great people
NYWizrd2: There Cap'n is changing things so that Eskei will have nothing to return too...
Besyanteo: seniority means nothing. Never let them tell you you're not as good because they've been here longer.
Besyanteo: ...
Besyanteo: what?
NYWizrd2: Really I think the point is to erase him entirely
NYWizrd2: You are in the room
NYWizrd2: You were in the room
Besyanteo: I've been talking to you and lurking, ala MAxwell sleeps
NYWizrd2: Will convincing Karin to give up on Eskei
Besyanteo: ...
NYWizrd2: I said I would not use him until they were satisfied
NYWizrd2: They... take advantage of this fact
NYWizrd2: Chibi isn't doing much to stop it, despite my telling her this...
NYWizrd2: But I can't really expect her to go against the powers that be...
NYWizrd2: ChibiUrusai: And you missed Rachel trying to talk Karin out of dating Eskei. =P
NYWizrd2: Not all of it
ChibiUrusai: I know, but more of it. ^-^
NYWizrd2: But your words inspire me...
NYWizrd2: I'm not going to bend, and I sure won't break
NYWizrd2: ...
Besyanteo: what?
NYWizrd2: On Eskei
NYWizrd2: If what you say is true...
NYWizrd2: Then I'm keeping him as is
Besyanteo: I know. the triple dot made me worry something new came up... ::also talking with Chibi and Dave::
NYWizrd2: I have an idea
NYWizrd2: Jason?
Besyanteo: hm? sorry... like I said, más windows..
NYWizrd2: Which is why the chat
NYWizrd2: We all talk at once together
NYWizrd2: NYWizrd2: Invite the others as you see fit...
Besyanteo: I need to link you something before you post tomorrow. can't do so now, as I'm already file trasnferring. ... I THINK I can't anyways.
Besyanteo: ... hope I don't regret this. I've been downloading for a few hours.
Besyanteo wants to send file read this please.htm.
NYWizrd2: I hope you don't regret it either
Connection problem with Besyanteo; the file will not be sent. (Your 'Internet Connection Firewall' may be on. If you and your buddy are each behind a different firewall, then the connection will not work.).
Besyanteo: ... :-/ right. e-mail then.
NYWizrd2: Okie
NYWizrd2: CronoLuminaire2@aol.com
Besyanteo: I know.
NYWizrd2: Yay
Besyanteo: sent
NYWizrd2: okie
Besyanteo: did it arrive?
NYWizrd2: Yes
NYWizrd2: You'll note I tend to use Aliester very sparingly; and most at End's request anymore.
Besyanteo: ah.
NYWizrd2: Like when he gamebroke my thing with Jacob
Besyanteo: ?
Besyanteo: GameBroke?
NYWizrd2: Jacob first made himself "known"
NYWizrd2: Past tense of Gamebreak
NYWizrd2: Basically he "waved a magic wand" over the problem
Besyanteo: was he asked/sent for to do such?
NYWizrd2: Not in the least
NYWizrd2: Here is what happened:
NYWizrd2: Jacob had revealed himself
NYWizrd2: He was debating with the cast about whether or not any of them (mostly Enlil) actually cared if James lived or died...
NYWizrd2: It was going to culminaite in a battle, in my original plan
NYWizrd2: But... Aliester showed up...
NYWizrd2: So the debate continued...
NYWizrd2: And then he used some crazy move to switch control back to James...
NYWizrd2: Since it was getting late...
NYWizrd2: Example of preaching and not practicing?
Besyanteo: indeed. You can use that maybe, although I'm not sure it would assist you.
NYWizrd2: I kep the result
NYWizrd2: kept*
Besyanteo: which was?
NYWizrd2: It lead to this: Besyanteo (3:34:49 AM): ... of note, it is fun to see off little moments lik when Jacob was, literally, messing with Aliester's head.
NYWizrd2: The result was, Jacob was "Tired" for awhile...
Besyanteo: :-/ it was. I was ending the discussion, and trying to be subtle.
Besyanteo: ...ah.
NYWizrd2: You remember how most of his IM's started with IM: ::Yawn::
Besyanteo: yup.
NYWizrd2: That'd be why
Besyanteo: to suggest Jacob will become a problem later?
NYWizrd2: To suggest that the move had a big effect
NYWizrd2: He was "tired" for weeks
NYWizrd2: Over that time he basically clamed down...
NYWizrd2: Going from evil twin to sarcastic voice of realism or something...
Besyanteo: heh. sounds like Seymour.


You have just entered room "Conversatory."
Besyanteo has entered the room.
NYWizrd2: Invite the others as you see fit...
ChibiUrusai has entered the room.
FFFan80 has entered the room.
Besyanteo: just to avoid the multiple copying and pasting
NYWizrd2: Hello
ChibiUrusai: Goody.
NYWizrd2: So is it true that not all of our "Fearless leaders" are standing against me?
Besyanteo: as for pervy's last comment about divinity not being necesary... ... that could apply to any number of Gaera's "gods"
Besyanteo: oh, and NY refers to oldbies, in a politically incorrect manner
ChibiUrusai: *nod*
NYWizrd2: In an ironical matter...
ChibiUrusai: Although to tell the truth, I can't really speak about much of the other gods.
ChibiUrusai: The only others I've really 'seen' are Mother Nature and Daughter Nature.
Besyanteo: aparently gods don't get played much. >.> and if that's Pervy's only real concern with such an inactive god...
FFFan80: To be fair...
Besyanteo: then frankly I think he needs to shut up.
Besyanteo: <.<
FFFan80: <_<;; ...I tend to get nervous about people I don't know well playing god-like characters.
FFFan80: No offense to you or anything NY, I'm sure you'd do a good job.
NYWizrd2: I thought I was...
ChibiUrusai: It's kinda understandable.
FFFan80: it's just characters like that have a HUGE impact on things, since they're so powerful.
ChibiUrusai: A god as a character has....
ChibiUrusai: Yeah. Power.
ChibiUrusai: Easily abused.
Besyanteo: ...
NYWizrd2: Except...
Besyanteo: so does Feisal.
NYWizrd2: Did I abuse said power?
Besyanteo: Has anyone been eatten yet?
FFFan80: I mean, think about what would happen if Stacey made things fuzzy ALL the time? >_>;
Besyanteo: hell, so does a dragon
NYWizrd2: Yep
FFFan80: I know you didn't do that btw, NY
Besyanteo: or a demon
Besyanteo: etc.
NYWizrd2: Griff/Foenix even defeated Eskei
FFFan80: That's not the same as a god though.
ChibiUrusai: Except that those are supposed to be more easily vanquished than a deity.
FFFan80: Gods can make/end/alter a life at a whim.
ChibiUrusai: *pointing out things; still sticking up for Eskei*
Besyanteo: ... we're talking about a god a demon was able to temorarily kill
Besyanteo: temporarily*
NYWizrd2: Eskei is not very high up there
NYWizrd2: Which is why he spends most of his time, down here
Besyanteo: I suppose he sounds more like an elemental, but it doesn't fit. ... ... ignoring that Zero has a music/dance elemental, but still/.
Besyanteo: -/*
NYWizrd2: He's been established for a bit of awhile
NYWizrd2: Shini gave no objections...
NYWizrd2: Until
NYWizrd2: Cap'n did so
NYWizrd2: And he did not, Until he saw Eskei in a 2nd gen arpee, once...
NYWizrd2: Griff and Eskei, were watching the youth go by...
Besyanteo: So pardon me if I can't help but look at this as anything but an immaturity on Pervy's part.
NYWizrd2: And by youth, I mean all the young people.. a collective "spirit" of youth
NYWizrd2: Sure...
NYWizrd2: Eskei did ask Griff to pick a random kid out of boredom
NYWizrd2: And Eskei made them drunk...
NYWizrd2: But I asked first
NYWizrd2: IMly
NYWizrd2: I would not, just do this and expect things to happen
Besyanteo: which I might note Argus did not when he made Maxwell Teeny. I've just chosen not to complain.
Besyanteo: I don't suppose either of you have a comment on this so far?
FFFan80: ...see that's what I'm talking about, sorta.
FFFan80: No offense to Argus, but on a whim he suddenly did a complete 180 to Jason's character.
NYWizrd2: Yep...
FFFan80: That irks me :-/
Besyanteo: so, ironically, it's a vet whose abusing power.
NYWizrd2: Wheras Eskei merely got a character a bit drunk...
NYWizrd2: His lips were loosened a bit,
NYWizrd2: And he'd have a slight headache afterwards...
NYWizrd2: But really, what harm has been done?
NYWizrd2: Baby for who knows how long, vs. Instant drunk for a few hours...
Besyanteo: NY: Baby until he grows up again,
Besyanteo: or I BS something
Besyanteo: and with the memory wipe, I don't think he'd be the same anyways.
Besyanteo: unless, once again, the BS card.
NYWizrd2: So basically, he just killed your character?
Besyanteo: yes and no.
NYWizrd2: Exactly
Besyanteo: I imagine he can undo it if I complain
Besyanteo: and that's the other side of the coin, even if a god did screw up,
Besyanteo: they can fix it with a snap of their fingers
FFFan80: ...that's another thing though.
NYWizrd2: Hmm?
FFFan80: When you use godlike powers too much... doesn't that sorta take the 'challenge' out of a character's life?
FFFan80: in the extreme case here, everything that was wrong with Maxwell there is 'miraculously' no longer an issue... for now anyway :-/
NYWizrd2: Yep...
NYWizrd2: But I don't forsee that happening in my case
FFFan80: I'm kinda curious about something.
Besyanteo: ?
FFFan80: <_>? ...why of all things booze and guns?
NYWizrd2: Like many other things in life...
FFFan80: *...say why not and I sic Stephan on you :-P*
NYWizrd2: It started as a joke
Besyanteo: ... why strange senses of humor?
NYWizrd2: Especially on RPGWW it seems...
Besyanteo: most of RPGWW's structure began as spam
FFFan80: ...in an odd way... I could see it happening. o.o
Besyanteo: or so I understand
FFFan80: He could've started as just the god of drink...
NYWizrd2: In fact, Chibi helped out
FFFan80: Then when Valthi started developing firearms... *insert better idea than I can think of here*
FFFan80: Dan: ...wait... did you say God of... *gulp*... drink? o_o;;;
FFFan80: ....*HIDES*
FFFan80: <_<;;;
NYWizrd2: What's his problem?
NYWizrd2: He does'nt like drinks?
Besyanteo: ... somehow I find htis amusing
FFFan80: ...Dan's family has... low booze tolerance. ^_^;
Besyanteo: ... ::kicks post limit::
Besyanteo: Besyanteo (2:16:33 AM): (speaking of which, I debate complaining to get my old Maxwell back. I never actually gave Kev permission to do that.)SongstressEnlil (2:16:50 AM): (You didn't? o.o)
Besyanteo: Besyanteo (2:16:54 AM): (No.)Shinigori (2:16:57 AM): (....)ChibiUrusai (2:17:06 AM): (....I figured you had done in IM. o.o;)Besyanteo (2:17:11 AM): (No.)Shinigori (2:17:13 AM): (Me too...)
FFFan80: *HIC*
Besyanteo: SongstressEnlil (2:17:22 AM): (Well then, you have all kinds of a case here)NYWizrd2 (2:17:29 AM): ( Yeah, some people just do what they want )Shinigori (2:17:35 AM): (Indeed...)
FFFan80: *glomps Jason* *^\/^* ...heeeeeeeeeeeeeeey.
Besyanteo: SongstressEnlil (2:17:37 AM): (report to AM)SongstressEnlil (2:17:48 AM): (Kev's on Probation woth Meia)
FFFan80: ....*facepalm*
Besyanteo: ... ::kicks stephan off:: not during the serious discussion.
Besyanteo: Ironic, neh?
Besyanteo: also: I don't intend to report to AM if no one else does. >.> I'll just maxwell fixed.
NYWizrd2: yes and no
Besyanteo: just get*
Besyanteo: splain?
NYWizrd2: It;s not ironic that Cap'n would be the "authority"
Besyanteo: which aparently he isn't, AM is.
NYWizrd2: It is ironic that it takes 1 complaint to get Meia in trouble
NYWizrd2: And 0 to get Eskei as such
NYWizrd2: No probation either, just CHANGE NOW

I apologize for the length of this post, and am happy you bothered to read through it all. I know I am most likely going to catch some flak, but it is best not to be silent. This voice in the dark shall be heard.

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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby pd Rydia » Mon May 19, 2003 8:37 pm

(1) Great Lord Agnostic was added to the list of deities as a joke. He's never, ever been RPed, and I doubt he ever will be.

(2) Stacey isn't actually a goddess of fluffiness, but that's an issue I'm not in a good position to explain.

(3) If you're upset that the people disagreeing with you don't RP with you enough (Pervy gathering support from Shini, AM, whoever), it's fair enough; you're disagreeing with people you don't know well, either. If you did know them, you'd know the above two points. Now, I don't expect you to know this; I do expect you to not discriminate others for what you do yourself, however.

(4) Loki makes enough sense.

(5) Eskei, in a sense of being a god of firearms or alcohol, makes enough sense.

(6) For cripes sake, Pervy, stop being so fucking hard on people. I like standards of RPing, too, but not to the extent of getting people this upset over something that could work with a little adaption.

(7) Also, why aren't you taking this issue privately to Pervy? Seems your beef is with him, even though your post smells of a "omg us v. them" that personally I really don't think exists. <p>
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">-=- "Careful wit' that blade, th's innkeep's a cranky sort when folks start fightin' Ye dun wanna know how many rowdy drunks she's ate" -- Uncle Pervy
-=- "I'm sorry, but there are rules to uphold here. No nakedness is one of them. Along with no suicide and no fighting." -- Will Baseton
-=- "Maybe... or maybe you're just not drunk enough." -- Nakibe</span></p>Edited by: [url=http://pub30.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=pdrydia>pd]&nbsp; Image at: 5/19/03 9:23:04 pm

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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby LadyDragonClawsEDW » Mon May 19, 2003 8:44 pm

I don't think the matter is much of "You're a little guy" as it is, "why do we need a god for that?" If the power thing is a problem...uh...he could be a demigod maybe? Or you could make him the god of Parties like the Greeks have...though it wouldn't explain the guns....guns could be a fetish maybe? <p>
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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby FlamingDeth » Mon May 19, 2003 8:51 pm

...I think that's the point, Kate. Why do we need a god of balance? Or seperate deities for dragons and lizardfolk? We tend to make up deities as we find use for them, even if it's just as part of one single character's backstory. I mean, I'm fairly certain I'm the only one who has even made reference to Proteus or Falis.

I say that since it really isn't going to have that much effect anyways, and I've seen nothing to indicate that NY is a subpar RPer, just let him RP said deity. It's not like the character concept concept is even at all implausible. <p>
I am an arrogant bastard.

And now, since I want to be unique like everybody else, quotes:
"People don't seem to realize, it wasn't a powerful ass poke. It was a powerful poke, to the ass!" ~ Lord McBastard
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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby Animala » Mon May 19, 2003 8:54 pm


Well, I guess I've been found out.

In truth, I rule most of RPGWW from my iron throne. Wearing in my iron crown the gems which hold the light of the Two Trees, I, the mightiest of the Vala--

Wait, I'm confusing myself with Morgoth again.

Seriously, I only got away with RPing Stacey in the first place because I have a general aura of fuzzy harmlessness. That, and I try not to overuse her, or abuse her power. RPing a deity is actually very challenging, simply because they can't really participate in meaningful conflicts. Without IC reasons to restrict them, they're simply too powerful. Which means that you have to find a reason for the deity to withdraw if confronted strongly or run the risk of godmoding.

That would be my uneasiness about your character, but I am uncertain about all deity characters.

Oh, and please come off "oppressed peasant" kick. One naysayer does not a vast shadowy conspiracy make.

To clarify:
I think you're creating enemies here that don't exist. If there's a secret coalition of RPGWWers, they never sent me a membership card. Hopefully responses here will ease your concerns of that. I suppose it's not unreasonable to assume that a vast shadowy conspiracy exists if one is accustomed to vast shadowy conspiracies. But if I'm part of one, it's so shadowy that I'm not even aware of it.

My conspiracy is bright, sparkly pink.

And fluffy.

-White Knight <p>

Behold! Sig figs!</p>Edited by: [url=http://pub30.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=whiteknightdelta>White]&nbsp; Image at: 5/19/03 9:17:08 pm


Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby SALSAlys » Mon May 19, 2003 8:57 pm

..well, I meant to post earlier, but I think that FDeth and Dia made all the things I intended to say, and much more eloquently than I could have.

In other words?

I'm with Wizzy on this.

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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby Besyanteo » Mon May 19, 2003 9:51 pm

My standpoint on this is made abundantly obvious by most involvement in the logs. I'm just happy more people agree with us. Also, some notes, as certain things didn't make it to the log...

Prior to posting, we were made aware of the deal with The Great Lord Agnostic.

I have spoken with Pervy. I understand his viewpoint. I simply don't agree with it.

The whole thing of the poor townfolks thing... it was in the logs iwth our concerns, but after talking with different people I try to avoid that and stick with my simple opinion that the way NY was being treated was shitty. Eskei has BEEN a character that has been a part of Gaera for some time now. It's not right to tell him "Nope, don't like it, gotta go."

I understand Loki is understandable. Thing is, Loki was a similar God to the Greeks. The Greeks also had Dionysis, who was the god of parties and wine. Thus the alcohol/sake thing, thank you for also noting that much LCD. As for Pervy's beef with a god having a thing for a man made object, such as a gun. My answer would be Artemis, God of the Hunt. She used weapons, guy, as did several other Greek Gods, which were based off of man made implements. They may be more primitive, like bows and arrows, but I have to tell you, they were the height of close combat technology back then.

... and, now that I've ranted about three times as much as I meant to, I think it's time I drew this to a close. I do not speak for NY's views on this, so naysayyers please keep that in mind, I'm just sayying what I feel and see.


Reread Dia's 7th point. We DID take this up privately with Pervy. Pervy refuses to let up on his "OMG STFU NOOB" point of view of Eskei, and demands either 1.) no Eskei or 2.) no deification. <p>_______________

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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby Animala » Mon May 19, 2003 10:19 pm

Well, actually, there is a slight problem with having a deity of a man-made object.

Artemis was Goddess of the Hunt, which was considered to exist independently of human weaponry. Such things fell under her jurisdiction naturally, but she was not solely Goddess of the Spear or anything similar. Bacchus is a god of revelry and as a function of that, god of wine.

Add to this that new deities are not being created every day. Now, I think it possible that an old deity could change with the times, becoming a god of guns after previously being a god of weapons or of the hunt...

But most deities in Gaera were, by current backstory, created "back in the day", so having a deity of something that wasn't around "back in the day" doesn't make that much sense.

-White Knight <p>

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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby pd Rydia » Mon May 19, 2003 10:45 pm

KnightsofSquare: Hmm...there is a bit of difficulty with a deity of a man-made thing. But...hm. A god of sake and guns could be a god of warfare who found his preferences or something
AIM T3chie: Could be. Personally I don't think a god could get that specific. His only worshipper would be Kamos, if him
AIM T3chie: Fluffiness is specific, but she's got mass worshippers, given the kid factor
KnightsofSquare: *nod*
AIM T3chie: Hm. I think if he generalized it to a god of warfare or alcohol would work, with a favorance for sake and guns...maybe a favor so strong that he introduces himself as the god of guns and sake
AIM T3chie: of course, I think we have a god of warfare...
AIM T3chie: maybe weaponry

KnightsofSquare: =o.o= Hm. Here's an interesting thought. It might be less of a stretch to have a fairly powerful spirit of some sort posing as a deity
AIM T3chie: Hm. o.o indeed <p>
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">-=- "Careful wit' that blade, th's innkeep's a cranky sort when folks start fightin' Ye dun wanna know how many rowdy drunks she's ate" -- Uncle Pervy
-=- "I'm sorry, but there are rules to uphold here. No nakedness is one of them. Along with no suicide and no fighting." -- Will Baseton
-=- "Maybe... or maybe you're just not drunk enough." -- Nakibe</span></p>Edited by: [url=http://pub30.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=pdrydia>pd]&nbsp; Image at: 5/19/03 10:46:03 pm


Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby Choark » Tue May 20, 2003 3:40 am

This has nothing to do with anything - as I don't have any more to add to any of this...

(*except I'm not against Gods popping out of no where, honestly. Or even spefic Gods. But I'm a guy who's read "Small Gods" by Terry Pratchett and as far as i'm concerned a God can exsist if it only has one follower. Also didn't hurclues become a god somehow?*)

(*...though all Gods I've ever met being played so far really didn't seem like Gods at al when talking to them, but rather some rather strange normal people. Heck Choark even had a fight with one of them and won =D... kinda*)


Besyanteo: that's two high ups I can see who aren't automatically against you.

Besyanteo: right off the bat

NYWizrd2: Cho and True Dave?

High up? I know i come from the mountains and such like but I tend to stick with everyone else down here, I think.

Really though, I'm high? I've never been a Moderator or Suchlike in here. And my opinions are generally taken in as much anyone else. The only thing i have on anyone is time spent here. *nod nod*

=P Though I'm almost touched that people see me as high. Maybe soon people will make a statue of me and I can have followers learning the way of the Cho or something.

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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby Kadrin77 » Tue May 20, 2003 6:12 am

1)What FD and Dia said.

2)...and I think that if we're going to have a caste system here at RPGWW, we might as well place a warning right under the one against advertising. That way we will stop all this "IVE BEEN HERE A LONG TIME SO SUK MY DIK" bull shit by scaring all the promising newbies away.

What irked enough me to write this:
"But Cap'n wants me to completely un-diefy him"
"that's two high ups I can see who aren't automatically against you."
"so, ironically, it's a vet whose abusing power."

Lesson: We have to learn that just because we've been part of RPGWW for a long time doesn't mean we should control the damn community Stalin-style.

It's all about egalitarianism, baby. Image

Uncle Pervy

Now that I'm not half-asleep

Unread postby Uncle Pervy » Tue May 20, 2003 10:49 am

It should be pointed out I did not merely seek out NY and attack him. I was asked to address this situation by several other concerned RPers who came to me independently and did not like this situation.

Koss has stated my platform on this extremely well. Deities are not meant to be used as standard characters. They are not supposed to have an extended direct presence in an RP because their power has the potential to completely fack everything up.

For example, let us look at Enlil's recent case when she was turned into a dragon by a curse gone awry. A deity could have dealt with this in moments, and there is no way such aid could have been refused ICly. Yet I personally did not want such to happen; I had plans for this event that I wanted to use.

Such is the case for all of the troubles that RPers pile upon their characters: We do it for a reason. The characters themselves tend to not want this stuff to happen, but the RPer inflicts it for a reason.

Deities can undo these things ICly, and the characters themselves would have little choice but to accept, thus ruining the RPer's plans. Now, with most Character deities, they seldom if ever make appearances. This is the reason why.

Now, the thing is, Eskei seems to be destined for regular use. Everything that you have told me, NY, has indicated this. The complaints that were brought to me were about you using Eskei in semi-plotted things already. This is why I ask you to abandon his deityhood, so you can use him like that without unbalancing things.

I tell people not to bring up Eskei in RPs because I want to make whatever is done is smooth as possible; without any more complications than needed. I don't want to mess up continuity either, nor do I want you to have to utterly abandon your character. But, as I have tried to say in the times you have not lurked out on me, you cannot continue to RP him as you have and keep him as he is.

And therein lies the other part of this problem. I have tried to speak with NY, and NY with me. The problem is that life tends to force him to lurk whenever we actually dicuss this, meaning we get exactly nowhere.

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Re: Now that I'm not half-asleep

Unread postby Besyanteo » Tue May 20, 2003 11:24 am

Besyanteo (11:09:21 AM): .... o.o
Besyanteo (11:09:40 AM): I would want to hurt something, but I'm busy being surprised.
Besyanteo (11:10:31 AM): aparently, NY and Pervy have never had a chance to fully discuss this.
FFFan80 (11:10:38 AM): Eep o.o;
Besyanteo (11:10:56 AM): as I was not told such, I've made assumptions and made and ass of myself.
Besyanteo (11:11:02 AM): an*
FFFan80 (11:11:23 AM): ..you mean the whole they never actually discussed it part?
Besyanteo (11:12:15 AM): yes. And, according to this, Pervy doesn't want Eskei to go away, though I could swear I've heard several people say as much.
FFFan80 (11:12:34 AM): ...sounds like the telephone game :-/
FFFan80 (11:12:49 AM): The message is getting changed around as it passed around
Besyanteo (11:12:55 AM): indeed. That's another reason that putting this on the forum is a good thing.

Well, don't I feel sheepish. Honestly, I like Dia and Koss's idea. I don't know if NY will agree with me on that though. I still support him, but now that I understand a little better, I can see where Pervy's coming from too. <p>_______________

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Re: Now that I'm not half-asleep

Unread postby Shinigori V2 » Tue May 20, 2003 2:49 pm

I feel as I should say something. However, due to school, my thoughts are uncoordinated at the moment. But I can come up with two arguments as to why Eskei, as a god, doesn't make much sense-

One: Guns and alcohol have no relation. None. They are totally seperate. Nothing to do with eachother. Not a thing. Why should they share the same god?

As for the second argument, I'm saving it for now to rewrite it so its easier to understand.

I'll repost later when I decide how to best say what I've got to say. <p>The holiday hitman sends his reguards...</p>


Re: Now that I'm not half-asleep

Unread postby Kadrin77 » Tue May 20, 2003 4:59 pm

Shini, Odin was the Norse god of war and wisdom.

...they aren't related much either, yet he was still considered as such. Just pointing it out, dude.

Uncle Pervy

Re: Now that I'm not half-asleep

Unread postby Uncle Pervy » Tue May 20, 2003 5:06 pm

War was more Thor, Tyr, and perhaps Vali's thing, really. Odin was more in strategy than actual combat. <p><div style="text-align:center">Image Image Image Image Image ImageImage</div></p>


Re: Now that I'm not half-asleep

Unread postby EKDS5k » Tue May 20, 2003 5:47 pm

Apollo was the god of the sun. He was also god of music.

Dionysus was god of partying, but followers who worshipped him would often go nuts and tear apart live animals with their bare hands.

Athena was goddess of Wisdom, and also war.

Persephone shared the goddess of the harvest deal with Demeter, but she also shared the goddess of death thing with Hades.

I could go on, but I really don't want to.

Anywho, a god who isn't a player character can do the same things as a god who is a player character. In fact doing that leaves it more open to abuse, as if a god is unowned, so to speak, then just about anyone can write a fic involving their character and something that that god did. If the god is a player character, then the player can set some kind of limit on what s/he wants him to do.

There's also the fact that a lot of gods subscribe to the "Just because I can, doesn't mean I will" type of mentality. Sure, a god could have helped Enlil, but they didn't. The gods of old often went into mortal form and associated with humans, but rarely ever did they complete their quests for them. Athena could have easily given to Perseus Medusa's head on a platter, but she didn't.

What I'm saying is, as it stands, NYW hasn't stepped in and used his godhood to resolve anything via divine intervention, so why jump on him for it now? At least wait until he RPs him poorly before telling him to change his character. And if he never RPs him poorly, then someone is complaining for nothing. <p>

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Re: Now that I'm not half-asleep

Unread postby Kadrin77 » Tue May 20, 2003 5:51 pm

Hmm...maybe you're right...I dunno then.

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Re: Now that I'm not half-asleep

Unread postby Shinigori V2 » Tue May 20, 2003 6:17 pm

Doc, that is where you are incorrect. That was my other statement. NY has used Eskei to prevent Jaeko, a gunman character of mine, from taking an action at least once. I don't know about anyone elses characters, but I know its been done to mine.

That was my other point. Sorry for sounding harsh, but I couldn't think of a better way to write it. <p>The holiday hitman sends his reguards...</p>


Re: Now that I'm not half-asleep

Unread postby SuperRube » Tue May 20, 2003 8:54 pm

This guy sounds like the god of the NRA. <p>

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Unread postby Banjooie » Wed May 21, 2003 4:09 pm

This argument is bloody well bollocks and you all know it.


1. Yes. Stacey isn't exactly a goddess. That's an important plot point.

2. ...Now, in my opinion, a god of guns and booze is an incredibly stupid idea. But that's not the point. The point is that hell, people probably think the Neo Vanists are idiotic ideas sometimes. And god knows I've wanted to throttle Pervy over Enlil sometimes. So yes, I'm pleasantly surprised nobody's tried to leap down his throat for the concept itself.

As for the posting this in a thread?

Hell. He wants a public opinion. God knows getting anything through Pervy's head is a lot like spinning gold out of hay. This isn't an insult, Pervy, but you have a definite inclination to retaining your opinion.

As for the deification idea?

I haven't RPed with Eskei yet. I know the Neo Vanists have made a few jokes about him not existing. I do this because...hell, the Neo Vanists have said people right in front of them don't exist. So nobody goddamn well respond with anything based on Neo Vanic Logic. What I am going to say is that well, look at the Neo Vanists. If you really want to look at it, Jinto could probably do just about anything. If you'll remember, our favorite cow rider knows enough transformation magic that our dear Enlil could have been an angel again in seconds. But y'know what? That WAS easy enough to avoid, Pervy. How'd I do it? I started an argument between the Neo Vanists as to whether that's what she should be turned into. It's not that hard to avoid, ICly, gods saying or doing things.

Yeah, I'm repeating a lot of points here. I'm putting, however, my own personal experience behind it, and I hate putting down 'I agree' posts.

This is the same goddamn thing I was bitching about on the Selene issue. 'Oh, no, you can't do that, nonono.' Now, if you're going to accept strategies like that to filter out the twinks, why are you so unreceptive of Pervy's application form idea, hm? After all, if we lose a good RPer due to our restrictions, what's the difference between that and a good newbie?

HA. Nothing. So let's make up our minds, shall we?

But okay. Let's see. What else is there to say? Ah, yes, when ICly, events can be ruined. Let's look at Diran Ilsvire, on his death. I didn't want him revived, really, but there was no way I could realistically have the Neo Vanists not remember Father Berkeley. Did I bitch? Yes. But did I find a way to make it a good and amusing RP, and keep it from being twinky? Hell yes, if anyone remembers the 'We can't find you, we haven't started looking yet' business. So why don't we keep the 'High Power = High Twinky unless you're us' thing out of it from conversations like this?

Yes, sometimes people who've been around longer get more respect. This is basic. This is LOGICAL. If your friend hit you in the back of the head, you'd respond with a more friendly reaction than if a random person did it, yes? Okay.

So stop complaining about how being there longer means you have a better opinion. Because 'better opinion' is relative, and you aren't going to change human nature.

What I'm saying is that for god's sakes, people still need to lighten up. Which is what Doc said. But nobody's listening, because everyone's shitstakingly worried that these magical floods of twinks and godmoders will rush in should we ever drop our guises of being better than everyone else.

Doomsaying? Hell yes.

Am I right? Hell yes.

Elementalist Daien


Unread postby Elementalist Daien » Thu May 22, 2003 8:21 am

Now, I need to throw in my two cents, yup.

Firstly, on the comment of the goddess of balance. The Goddess of Balance is not exactly at you think. Her job is less to keep "balance" as we know it than as to make sure that the natural balance of things are kept. Usually, these things happen on their own, empires rise and fall, evil and good periods come and go, but as far as other dieties are involved, sometimes she has to step in. That's all.

Secondly, on the God thing. Let me put it this way. It's difficult and annoying. Same could be said, albeit to a lesser extent, about dragons. Of course, that's life, but people don't become all powerful in real life with a scribble of pen on paper, if not just a thought of an RPer.

Now, I myself have a god I sometimes RP. Unfortunately, being a helluva WEAK god, he's lucky he can do all those annoying Mazoku-type thingies. A strong human can give him a hell of a pwnage. (Of course, he'd get his sex changed. But hmph.) Also, he's a god of a silly thing as well, but that has been explained.

Thanks to Koss for giving me something to explain his wierd godhood... But anyway...

The point is, when someone RPs a god, one can't help but feel restricted. That was, in the end, the point with people playing dragons, but that is on a much lesser extent than gods. How can one have a clash of interests with a god ICly? I mean... Read some Greek Mythology. If a god wanted to rape your wife or burn your farm, he did. You just stood there and went all OMG while he pwned your ass, to make it understandable. So, yes, someone RPing a god so running around in humans is a bit... Annoying and restrictive, and takes out the fun of much.

Like, I suppose, was Jaeko's case...

While I am still undecided... I know that it's annoying when someone plays a character superior to anything your character can imagine. Like Superman against bank robbers.

However, if we're to do this, yes, I suggest we give a look at all the characters, unrelated to who RPs them, all over the board. I know Day could be seen like that, from my characters, because of all his spells, but, if he's hit, he's as fragile as a china vase.

So... Well.... I think I went a bit off the point, but... There you go. My one Maltese cent.


Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby CronoLuminaire » Sun May 25, 2003 10:25 pm

I keep checking in, and this topic keeps on growing, work and school are not places to respond to this... hmm... so many points to respond too. Let's see...

I appreciate the suggestions being given, and I have been mulling them over a bit. One thing I noticed was that there seemed to be some confusion about Eskei, yes, his other name is "Sakegungami", but (I was sure most of you already knew this) Sake is Japanese for alcohol in general, as well as the famous rice wine itself (at least, that is what my friend who studies languages for fun tells me), so he already is generalized in that sense. He just likes drinking sake the rice wine.

The "omg us vs. them" or "shadowy conspiracy" is what I was hoping to dispel by making the post... It confirmed that everyone is not against me. Or is it that not everyone against me. Either way, it's nice to find out.

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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby pd Rydia » Sun May 25, 2003 11:16 pm

Mm'kay, partially repeating myself, here's what I suggest. Make Eskei a god of alcohol, who particularly favors sake, and has a thing for guns. So even though he's "just" a god of alcohol, he introduces himself as Sakegungami, the god of sake and guns (or alcohol and guns).

Secondly, give him a damn good reason to not abuse his power and still be IC. God characters need this. Nakibe has Damian, Stacey has a childish mindset, Ryuugami is a dying goddess, Loki has a weird sense of humor, etc. etc. My suggestion would be for Eskei to be in bad with his "mom," Ishtar (who is RPed by no one, and should stay that way) -- she doesn't like her children abusing their power, so she's a convenient reason for gods to stay in check).

To guess from Pervy and Shini's responses, I'm guessing this problem arose because you didn't have an IC reason to keep Eskei from abusing his powers. Make one and adjust your RPing accordingly, and things should be fine. <p>
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">-=- "YOU SEE THE MIGHTY DAMARAMU'S BRAIN IS VERY COMPACT!" -- Damaramu
-=- "Don't worry Mink, I'll be good excess baggage!" -- Pia
-=- "But I'm a slime half!" -- Princess Vena
-=- "OH BY THE SEVEN GODS IT'S A MECHANICAL BIRD! But it's so...small..." -- announcer guy
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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby pd Rydia » Sun Jun 08, 2003 7:58 pm

You know, after you made a huge stink about this, are you actually ever going to DO anything? Hell, you've never even submitted your god to the Gaera Guide thread, let alone let us know if you're going to adjust him any or not... <p>
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">-=- "YOU SEE THE MIGHTY DAMARAMU'S BRAIN IS VERY COMPACT!" -- Damaramu
-=- "Don't worry Mink, I'll be good excess baggage!" -- Pia
-=- "But I'm a slime half!" -- Princess Vena
-=- "OH BY THE SEVEN GODS IT'S A MECHANICAL BIRD! But it's so...small..." -- announcer guy
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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby SALSAlys » Wed Jul 02, 2003 4:47 am

Right. Response still needs to be made, but I think Wizzy's going to be making it soon. I'd kind of prefer it that way, since one of my chars is in a relationship with Eskei...

Which brings up some other issues, about a divine/mortal relationship. You'd expect it to be frowned upon by the other deities, and if they end up marrying, that would have other repercussions. Or what about kids? And Will's had a few other quibbles about it which I think he can sum up better in this thread than I can.

Uncle Pervy

Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby Uncle Pervy » Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:17 pm

I think the mortal/Divinity thing would be very discouraged.

My thoughts are that a divinity doing such would be asked to give up their divinity, and their portfolio taken over by another deity, until such a time that the mortal in question dies off, and the Deity may return to his or her duties unfettered.

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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby Animala » Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:44 pm

....do wha?

I'm afraid I don't see it as nearly that much of a problem.

I think many deities would consider it kinda creepy, and it's probably frowned upon....but I don't think policy is nearly so strict.

-White Knight <p>

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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby CronoLuminaire » Fri Jul 04, 2003 2:16 am

Chibi demanded that I post something, And so I am... I am thinking about this, I just, don't have anything really to say at this point... <p>
I should post more...<div style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:xx-small;">Kyle: *sips Cocoa* <br />James: ::Sips Cocoa:: <br />Eve: ::Sips Cocoa:: <br /> Cocoa, Gecko-Fencers, Reploid-bishes and Epee wielding children agree, It's the best drink on Gaera!
(You won't know what hit you)</div></p>


Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby KraKeN » Fri Jul 04, 2003 6:33 am

I thought this thread died a long time ago.... <p>
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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby Archmage144 » Fri Jul 04, 2003 1:47 pm

Eskei really, really, really looks like Neo. <p>
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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby NebulaQueen » Fri Jul 04, 2003 1:54 pm

Personally, I think he looks like a male version of her. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">
"I died as mineral and became a plant,
I died as plant and rose to animal.
I died as animal and I was human.
Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?
Yet once more I shall die human,
To soar with angels blessed above.
And when I sacrifice my angel soul
I shall become what no mind ever concieved."
-Rumi Jalaluddin
Arch mage144: ...either way, I have a lot of chocolate now. o_o;
Kirbjooie: USE IT FOR EVIL
Kirbjooie: FOR EVIL</span></p>

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Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby Shinigori V2 » Fri Jul 04, 2003 2:12 pm

Minus the cat ears. <p>

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<div style="text-align:center">Two heroes, two villains and a catboy...Life doesn't get much better than this....</div></p>


Re: A voice in the dark...

Unread postby Archmage144 » Fri Jul 04, 2003 3:05 pm

This doesn't change my opinion. <p>
<div style="text-align:center">Image</div>


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