A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

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Kai
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A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Kai » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:29 pm

A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated!

My honesty is always harsh. Let's face it. I feel like a bad field worker for being as critical as I am, like I'm being terribly ethnocentric. This because I come from a radically different internet "culture" than the one I'll be describing. At the end I should just call the forum an ethnical chaos of savagery and barbarism. Just get it done with.

Get back to my theoretical roots, eh?

At the very least, I make no promises that this is professional quality or that any attempt has been made to remove personal or cultural bias. Take what I write with the proverbial grain of salt and understand the limits of my perspective before you take this as gospel.

Guide to Unicorns' Visions for the Uninitiated
<lj-cut text="Cut for length and nerdiness.">
Okay. So some people may be wondering how my venture into the land of Unicorn's Visions is going.

First of all, I must say that I experienced a good deal of culture shock in entering their forum. RPGWW is largely Communist in political terms. Administrators and moderators hold little power, and really only hold the titles as honorary positions.

Compared to this, UV is administrated by Gaeva Winged Unicorn. She is the site's creator, and her avatar character is the leader of Deep Forest. Despite a council of moderators and an apparent willingness to heed the desires of community members, all decisions come down to only one vote: Gaeva's. This is because UV is arguably her forum, and its members her members.

Applying

On UV, as with many forums, there is a formal application process for each character to go through. As each player can only play three characters without special dispensation from the authorities (after certain conditions have been met), there is a need for assurance that every character played on UV will be there to stay. In other words, they're avoiding drive-by RP spammers.

This application process entails first making a character sheet and placing it in the subforum dedicated to the edge of UV's setting: Deep Forest. At the Edge of the Woods, a character has his/her introduction to the forest RP'd with existing members. This not only serves to ensure that applicants are interested in sticking around, but that applicants will get a chance to play.

Characters can only be accepted through explicit saction from the Edge's moderator. This generally takes the form of a post in the character's Edge thread.

Once the character leave the Edge of the Woods, it is possible for him/her to travel to any number of potential destinations. Once a character is accepted into the community as a whole, he/she must still apply for entrance into a particular geographical subforum. This is done in a similar manner to the first application process, with the character finally being accepted by a moderator of the location in question.

For these reasons, non-player-characters controlled by gamemasters for the purposes of guiding a plot must be restricted to a player's officially-sanctioned characters. Like all rules of UV, this can be overturned by a an appeal to Gaeva. Her permission overrules most regulations.

The Rules

Standard roleplaying forum rules apply. Respect your fellow members, don't attempt to control anyone else's character, don't be excessively vulgar or crude, spend some time and effort on posts and please do use correct English.

Relevant rules that differ from, say, RPGWW appear in both IC and OOC regulations.

OOC Rule number three: "Please do as the ones in charge ask you to do. This is not an option."

IC Rule number four: "NO HUMAN CHARACTERS. So if you have a human-looking character, make sure they have visible clues they are NOT. Humans will be chased away. Adaptations of these however are allowed, like a shapeshifter with a human form, or a centaur, or an elf." A friend of mine has submitted an image that I believe expresses something meaningful here.

OOC Rule Ten, the "most important rule: Don't be afraid to ask questions." This will show up in later analysis, likely in contrast to the enforcement of IC Rule 4.

The Timeline

The timeline on UV is absolute. There are certain subfora (such as the Edge of the Woods joining forum) that are specifically placed outside the timeline, but to preserve continuity, it is generally only possible for one plot to occur at a time. This is presumably to avoid friction between two lines of (potentially) conflicting continuity.

The Syndicate

"Please respect them [the moderators] as their word overrules all others' (except Gaeva's) in any given forum, not just the ones they have been given modship in."

There is a subforum on UV called Deep Forest Council, for Gaeva and her moderators only. Moderators include but are presumably not limited to the following: Barbannis, Silvertone Bluenote, Windra, XxJah LilaxX, Shadowed Illusions, Griatch, FoxDragon, Ourania Dreamchaser, nightwolf714, Silvereyesish, and Roose Hurro.

On many roleplaying fora, there is a forum reserved for discussions among those with formal or informal authority. The difference between these fora and UV is that the Deep Forest Council is not even viewable by the vast majority of members. It's something of a mystery to me at this point what goes on in there, as I see little chance of insinuating myself into the sanctum sanctorum of UV.

It's curious to note that despite the inability of members to view its content, the presence of this forum is not hidden from the average member. Anyone can see that it exists and is being used. It's simply a link that goes nowhere, an overt acknowledgement of the power structure of UV. There is no need to hide that decisions are made by a select few, without the input and, what's more distressing, without the knowledge of the community itself. Decisions are simply announced by one person speaking for "us" or "the mods."

Gamemasters

I suggested in my previous paper about RPGWW that community participation is an important part of deciding who is a "good" member of a community. Players who play are considered more faithful or diligent than players who fade away, and players who gamemaster are often considered to be stepping above the normal level of participation to provide a sort of civil service.

UV, near as I can tell, has two people who run plots. One is Barbannis, the officially-titled "master plotter," and who has reported to me that he is the only one allowed to create plot-related NPCs for his own use without first applying for their use at the Edge. Gaeva may also run plots, but I have little data on her activities. I feel safe in assuming that since nothing in Deep Forest happens away from the scrutiny of its unicorn guardians (played by the forum's OOC guardian), that Gaeva is at least passively involved in every event on this forum.

"The RP at Unicorn's Visions is frequently enlivened by story plots created to entertain the players. This is usually done by either Gaeva or Barbannis, though others can of course plan something new as well. They are however the only two members at UV who are allowed to start a RP plot of any size with any possible consequences to the Forest and it's inhabitants without previous permission given from the rest of the staff.

If you have come up with a grand scale plotline that will affect numerous inhabitants and/or Deep Forest itself (or the unicorns in charge) in any way, you must present this to Gaeva first. This is done to first judge your course of action, and whether it will be appropriate and feasible to carry out. And second this is done to prevent several plots popping up at the same time and not only creating chaos, but interfering with each other."


These regulations, combined with the stringency of regulations regarding character creation/use, combined with the rigidity of the setting's timeline, make it nigh-impossible for more than one major plot to occur at a time. With an officially-annointed "Master Plotter," it is easy to see that the efforts of this one member are likely to prevent any other member from gamemastering.

A structural-functionalist analysis suggests to me that the rules are not created to facilitate gamemastering. So, if the rules are set up to prevent most members from running plots, what are they set up to do? What need do they serve?

Near as I can tell, there is very little value placed on gamemastering. As a result, there are few considerations for gamemasters other than Barbannis built into the rules.

My conclusion from this is that there is simply no need for plots on UV. When they occur, they are strictly regulated, seemingly to prevent them from interfering with activities of slightly-higher priority. These activities include such noble pursuits as character development, which preferably occur without the influence (interference?) of plotted events.

Positionality

When I entered this forum, it was with the intent of seeking out new RPers and making diplomatic contacts with other internet communities. RPGWW suffers from a minor case of isolationism, and perhaps new blood and new ways would be a positive addition.

Coming from a forum in which no one has formal power to allow or forbid anything, it was unusual to me that I was unable to question the political workings of UV the way people criticize RPGWW. I did not realize until afterward why such inquiry is so poorly-received.

Because UV is centrally-regulated and every decision is made either actively or passively by one person, questioning or criticism of any sort is viewed as a personal attack on the judgement of that person.

This bleeds over into the priveleged members, the moderators. See the following conversation in which a moderator leapt to the defense of her comrades when I questioned the secrecy in which decisions were made on UV.

I didn't cut out anything she said or anything I said. Hopefully this will offer some indication of what a conversation with the powerbase of this forum looks like.

Kai: *awaits the ruling of the secret moderator council*
Silvertone Bluenote: What are you talking about Kai?
Silvertone Bluenote: Kai, what do you mean?

Kai: Loki had some questions about Dawn, so I'm attempting to answer them as best I can.
Kai: Though I don't think it was "Loki" so much as "the mods," which presented amusing images of the Syndicate from the X-Files watching over the Edge forum.
Kai: I giggled a little.
Silvertone Bluenote: M'kay, but that remark was rather snide.
Kai: It was. Most of my remarks are.
Silvertone Bluenote: For crying out loud >.<; You DO realize that the MODS are -also- following certain rules Right?!
Kai: Especially when I'm addressed on behalf of some secret body that I never knew existed. I don't mind. I'm just entertained.
Anonymous (Windra?): HEY
Kai: The mods can do their job. If I had a problem, I wouldn't try so hard to make sure I answered their questions.
Silvertone Bluenote: Back off Kai. [Note from the editor: You can see from my response that this is where I got particularly confused. This is just as random as it looks.]
Kai: ...
Anonymous (Windra?): Easy, children.
Anonymous (Windra?): Let's not go at each other's throats.
Kai: I cracked a joke. Blue freaked. I explained. Blue continued to freak?
Sithrazer: *gets out the water spritzer*
Silvertone Bluenote: I 'freaked' because I don't care for snide comments towards my fellow mods. I hate that kind of thing.

There is one notable exception to this rule, and out of respect I feel I should mention him specifically. The moderator Griatch has shown much more level-headedness in the face of my questioning, and has given me (seemingly) accurate information about when I was being reasonable and when perhaps I am going too far in my cynical assessment of UV's politics.

It is my hope that my analysis will not alienate me from him, as he is largely the reason I am remaining on this forum. I have had conversations with few other members that suggest I have any future here, but I press on for the sake of attempting to maintain an acquaintance with this member.

More to come as I learn the outcome of the above conversation. Perhaps there is more information to be gathered. <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>

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Kai
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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Kai » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:31 pm

The conclusion is an email from me to Griatch.

The communications I've received from "the mods" do not warrant a response. If they cannot do me the service of responding to the points I've made, I don't owe them any more respect than that, either.

I feel like I should apologize to you in advance, because of everyone I've spoken to on UV, you've treated me with the most respect and you're the one I have the most respect for in turn.

I don't know how much of my email correspondence with the council of shadows actually gets through to anyone else. I have my suspicions that I'm being misrepresented, that my emails are only being partially posted in a forum which I can not even view, let alone be present in to voice my concerns.

To that end, I have emailed with people who claim to speak for all of the mods. I have attempted to say, in as honest and respectful a manner as possible, that I feel very disrespected and slighted by the way I'm treated by this secret governing body. This isn't about the moderators requiring me to edit my sheet, despite the fact that "the mods" are more than happy to put those words in my mouth (or on my keyboard as it may be). It is the way they treat their members like errant children. It is disrespectful, plain and simple.

In case the whole thing wasn't posted where everyone can see it, I'll paste the relevant part of my email here.

-----------------------------------------

A personal note from the player herself, not relating to Dawn:

I'm afraid that I seem much more pointlessly contentious than I actually am. It's a common problem for me, but I feel like I only have a few chances to explain myself before my words are given to a secret council for secret deliberations. I'm trying to anticipate problems/confusions/questions/etc before they come up. I feel very much as if my input on my character is... only marginally relevant. The discussion about Dawn goes on without me, and every now and again I'm handed a ruling.

That's why I asked if it might not be easier to actually sit down and discuss things as a group. Aside from the obvious point that communication is generally more effective when all parties are present, it would certainly make me feel as though my statements had some value.

This isn't intended as a challenge to the way UV does things, though I'm fairly sure it will be taken that way. This is me trying to express how this process can make a player feel instead of doing what many do and letting resentment fester, paving the way for more drama than the issue warrants. If it gets me banned for "sedition" or some equivalent charge, so be it. But I would feel dishonest if something were upsetting me and I didn't have the decency to say something.

So... do with this whatever you've done with my other emails. Post them up in the secret moderator forum or what-have-you. But I felt like I should say something even if I'm never allowed to view the reactions or responses, even if it doesn't do any good, and even people get angry with me for feeling this way and daring to speak up.


-----------------------------------------

I'm enjoying roleplaying with you more than I've enjoyed roleplaying in a long time. In fact, I was enjoying the opportunity to play in a new setting, some new world in which to do something creative, something new, something different.

But the response I received from "the mods" is essentially, "Get in line or shut up."

-----------------------------------------

Okay, lets try this one more time.

We have agreed that your character needs a permanent abnormaility to her appearance for her to qualify as "not human". Any character with a humaniod form as their "main form" needs something about them to make them look not completely human. I've already given you suggestions of what to do already, so I'm not going to repeat myself. We do understand that if something happens to cause her form to 'blink' or if she's wounded, that the other role-players character will realize she's not what she looks like.

We're asking you to change her appearance because of the Rules, not just because "we have something against you and aren't hearing you out". They've been there a lot longer than you have, and they aren't going to change.

She has to not look human somehow. Period.

We've asked our questions, there is no longer any confusion, and the only real problem we have now is her appearance.

We aren't going to make an exception for you.

Change her appearance, or don't expect her to leave the Edge.


-----------------------------------------

There was no attempt to validate or even address the fact that I felt disrespected, mistreated, and perhaps even hurt by the lack of regard the council of shadows is giving me, and presumably has given other people before me.

I thought that I could stick it out. I thought that if I could just adapt to the requirements of the authorities, that I'd simply get used to being treated like a child who cannot be trusted to create her own character and roleplay her. I convinced myself of this for several reasons. One is that I can withstand a lot, and the other is that I didn't want to stop roleplaying with you. Quite frankly, you are the one that gave me such a good impression of UV, and you are the one who had at one point convinced half a dozen of my friends to check this forum out.

But one person isn't enough. I can adapt to a lot, but when I am not even permitted to take part in a dialogue whose sole purpose seems to be feeding the... delusions of grandeur by a few would-be internet despots... I want no part of it.

The viewpoint of "the mods" seems to be nothing more than this, "Get in line, shut your mouth, or get out."

If those are my options (and I've been presented with no others), I think I know which one I have to take. And that's why I'm apologizing to you. I didn't want to place you in the middle of some imagined battle between Kai and the Angelic Host that sits at the right hand of Gaeva.

Because I don't want to do that, because I don't want to ask you what's being said about me in the mod forum, and because I don't want to cause you problems with your friends, I'm going to stop posting here, stop frequenting chat, and in short: Stop disturbing the authorities by my presence.

Rather than address my complaints, I've been dismissed rather rudely. The only proper reaction to being dismissed is to leave.

If this means we can't correspond any more, then so be it. You were friends with them first, and I don't want to cause you problems. I wouldn't have even sent this if I didn't need to tell somebody. I'm sorry for causing problems, I'm sorry for what probably looks like my attempt to flee from judgement, and I'm sorry for sending this message. <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Kai » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:34 pm

People on RPGWW know that while I apologize for things, I don't shower apologies on people for no reason.

I feel bad about losing an informant and, potentially, a friend in Griatch. But as I have no more reason to be present on this forum, I see little alternative.

So, there it is. If anything further happens with this, I'll be sure to keep the thread updated.

This has been the latest chapter in Kai's effort to encourage diplomacy with other forums. Ironic, eh? <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Kai » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:08 pm

Griatch is trying to convince me to stay at UV. I gave him a full-on rant about why I think it's bullshit to keep decisions and information from members, and as usual, he is the only thing maintaining my willingness to stay on.

Griatch thinks that I should post somewhere the fact that I think the mod forum should at least be viewable by members in general. I have done this, and hopefully it will be helpful.

Griatch agreed with my statement that this only went so far out of proportion because I was not privy to a discussion that was about me. If I'd been told things honestly, like he just did, my response would have been, "Oh. Oh, well that makes sense." But I wasn't given reasoning, and won't be given reasoning next time unless such discussions are made public.

My basic argument? In a community where people respect one another there should be no need for secret deliberations. Artificial barriers to communication are never the answer, and they can never result in more effective communication.

So we'll see.

The experiment lives, I suppose. Mainly because I'm a sucker for lost causes. <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=kai@rpgww60462>Kai</A]&nbsp; Image at: 11/27/06 23:09

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Capntastic » Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:13 am

This pretty matches up with my findings from my little foray into the land of UV a year or two back (Which had the same goal as your adventure; diplomacy!). I basically got the impression that you're not really allowed much in the way of creative freedom in any aspect of roleplaying, and that if you make an enemy of the wrong person you're pretty much excommunicated.

I will stay tuned for more updates!


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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Jak Snide » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:27 am

The "no humans" rule made me groan for some reason. This is definitely an interesting read, though.

How did you find out about the place, by the way? Has it got a certain fame about it on the net?


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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Kai » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:05 am

Zero: Didn't know you'd been there before. That's interesting.

Jak: It used to be on ezboards. I used the search function to find it just before it moved to its new location. <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:55 pm

Suddenly I envision running over there and having fun with the old Floating Eggplants concept. I may indeed do this, in going along with my original idea of introducing a little ambiguity into their odd moral absolutism. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Choark » Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:48 pm

I have a sudden impending feeling of forum trolling occuring.
Quote:
The "no humans" rule made me groan for some reason.

Some reason I think 95% of the reason may have something to do with 'furries'. Suppose its bound to happen considering there are probably places with no furry rules.
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">But then if they have a no human rule, or not looking like a human rule, then make something not human?</span>
<p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
<div style="text-align:center"> Image </div>
<div style="text-align:center"> </div></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Besyanteo » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:44 pm

Cho forgets Otherkin, who are in fact worse: They're Pretentious MENSA Furries. <p>
<div style="text-align:center">Image</div></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:44 pm

Well, yeah, that's what they're trying to do, is make people play things that are not human. RACISM!

But the point is hardly that they discriminate by character appearance. That's how it started, but the issue is much deeper. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Capntastic » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:22 pm

I think the real issue is that the players who choose to develop characters there lack a fundamental freedom over what their character can be, and overall cannot really have a great impact on a lot of the goings-on there without going through a lot of 'red tape.'


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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:49 am

It's like a moderately benevolent oligarchy over there. That's also not a stroke in their favor. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Idran1701 » Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:48 am

I have to say, I don't like the idea of people going over there to mess with them, just because they disagree with their methods. It seems needlessly jerkish to me, honestly. <p>

"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
</p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Capntastic » Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:39 am

I agree. It's not worth the time and it's not like you can do much to point out their flaws.


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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Kai » Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:04 am

Yeah. At this point, as much as I'd love to say RPGWW should be doing more with other forums... I don't see any reason to recommend people going there at all, even if it's in an attempt to troll.

First of all, if it were intelligent trolling, they would likely not understand what the troll was doing because they honestly don't put much thought into anything members do as long as the rules are followed. If it were just... trolling... it wouldn't speak very highly of our maturity.

I've received a very firm ruling from Gaeva that the mod forum will never (and she did say "never") be open to public viewing. It's apparently very important to her that her members not be able to see such things.

I typed up a long, detailed, and admittedly rather nasty post in reply that was mostly for cathartic purposes, and I don't know that I'll actually put it up. Before I do so and cement the fact that I never want to be involved with that board again, I'm probably going to talk to Griatch and Gaeva on an individual basis.

I want to cover my bases before I actually do flip them off and leave. <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=kai@rpgww60462>Kai</A]&nbsp; Image at: 11/29/06 9:05

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:06 am

Does Gaeva even say *why* she is keeping things hidden? That's really a basic question that I have. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Kai » Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:18 pm

Quote:
Everybody is allowed their own opinion, but the mod forum will not be made visible for viewing, ever. Certain things need to be taken care of behind the scenes, mostly problems or things that have gone wrong and that need solving, or just discussions on handling certain things. They don't have anything to do with the normal activities on the forum, and the things that do become relevant to the other members naturally are announced to all. It'd be a bit of a sucky place if everything was kept secret. Some things are just done out of sight. It's called tact.


Like I said. I had quite the post written up in response to this (that I haven't put up yet), but she never actually said why. She has no reason to justify herself to a lowly member like me. As far as she or anyone else is concerned, it's her forum and she probably feels that we're all quite priveleged that she lets us play there. As a result, she probably feels like she's being quite magnanimous by announcing decisions after they're made, as she stated above is the norm. It would just be silly if she also let members have input.

Anyway, the only person on the forum whose opinion counts has spoken. The mod forum stays secret, and I'm left to wonder not whether I'm going to leave, but how. Part of me wants to deliver one last blow for posterity's sake. <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=kai@rpgww60462>Kai</A]&nbsp; Image at: 11/29/06 12:23

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Griatch » Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:47 pm

I'm sorry to see this, and the aminosity the way Unicorn's Visions works have apparently instilled in you Kai. I'm also sorry to see that me taking the time to talk this through with you at 3AM in the morning didn't help lift your spirits.


Hi, everyone at RPGWW, Griatch here, I'm apparently known already. I'm a moderator on UV, but I'm not here in any form of "ambassador" role or anything officially silly like that. Nothing official at all. I just read this and thought I'd give my views -- the views of someone who has been on UV for three of the boards' four-year history of continuous roleplay.

First of all, I like what I see here on RPGWW, it seems like a nice place with nice people and lots of creativity. And I agree that UV is different. The reason is that UV has from the outset been designed to offer a different form of roleplaying experience than you guys have here. Not better, only different.

Now, I don't know RPGWW well enough to do a side-by-side comparison of the two. The fairest thing for me is to relay what Unicorn's Visions is and what it is not and let you draw your own conclusions.

--------

Roleplaying-wise, UV has two modes: "In the timeline" and "out of the timeline". If you want to play out-of-timeline you can do that in a forum dedicated for this. In there you can have your characters do whatever they want -- leave the forest, travel in time, jump to another reality where they rule everything ... Indeed, there is a section in there where you can play with any character you fancy, without worrying about acceptance, modship or anything. This is the place for the GM who wants total control over their world, or for the player who wants to develop their character but feels it would take too long to do so in regular post-by-post roleplay.

... Regular roleplay, you say? This is the second mode of UV roleplaying (in-timeline also known) and I think the bit that differs the most from Kai's preferences. Kai has already described this, allow me to give it my slant.

UV is (aiming to) offer a consistent world in the sense of having a timeline roughly the same for everyone (I say roughly, there can be night in some threads, day in others so the timeline is held within reason), with an established set of rules and basic hierarchy already in place. This means that the world is more "inflexible". The RP motivation behind this (right or wrong) is that this allows the characters to go about their daily business in a concise way. In a sense UV is working more like an MMORPG than a completely free-form RPG. That is, the world is relatively unchanging and it's your job to get by in it -- difference to a computer game being of course that you have essentially unlimited character-creation possibilities (any strange race but humans are allowed) and complete freedom to interact within the scope of your character. This is also linked to the way UV is organized in "locations" within the forum. A character can only exist in one place at a time -- this is a requirement for a board that relies on a consistent timeline after all.

(Also, a correction -- you don't HAVE to apply anywhere else than at the Joining forum (The Edge). The sub-fora on the board are living-places, like the village or the Wolf-pack. Once you have been accepted into the forest you can post in those fora as much as you want, but posting in Wolf territory might get you in trouble (IC trouble I mean). Only if you want to JOIN either of these groups as a member do you have to create a joining thread. Just to make that clear.)

The appeal of UV for me is that the board facilitates micro-life. Because of the established world which is relatively strictly maintained for everyone, players actually roleplay their character's daily lives there -- and when something happens they are literally dropping what they were doing to go check things out.

Because of this it is not so strange that *forest-wide* plots (that is, plots that effect everyone everywhere) are restricted. If everyone could start those at a whim there would be chaos, and hence some sort of coordination is required. This coordination is handled by the UV staff (known interchangebly as "The Mods" or the "Shadow cabinet" above).

Small plots -- that is, plots affecting only the local thread with a few characters, and which do not involve destroying the world -- happen all the time. People start them, people join in, have fun. It's almost never GM:ed though, this is true, rather it's acted out directly between characters and their RP:ing skills decide where it will go. It's very popular to handle it in that "spontaneous" way, but some carefully plan out things that will happen for their own characters, and others tag along on the ride, adding to the experience. True, the scope is nessecarily more restricted and often it's concentrated on rather "non-epic" things, like a character finding out something about their childhood, or two enemies challenging each other to a duel while the local merchant troll takes bets on the whole thing ... ;)

For me, part of the beauty of UV's in-timeline regular RP lies precicely in the challenge of setting up an event or plot for others while I know I have to stick to the consistency of the setting and only have my own character's skills to do so. If you want to be able to set up an event for many people you'd better have a character that would be likely to be able to handle that!

So it is very true that regular omnipotent GM:ing is not so suitable in this type of RP setup as it is in others. Plotting and events must almost exclusively be handled as "your character doing this or that for others" -- You will only have as much control as you character could have. It also poses a problem when travelling for example, since there is no natural choice as to whom should say the magical "A little while later", pushing everyone in the group forward in time. So there are inherent flaws with the UV RP system, true, but that is the case with any design decision.

Because the regular RP was never really meant for GM:ing in the regular sense, after all. For a GM, sticking to a location and following a timeline is way too restricting. That is what the dedicated out-of-timeling forums are for.

--------

It is true that Gaeva, the admin of UV, plays the "leader of the forest" (a unicorn), but the influence she has on others in RP is minimal at best. Barbannis has the role of Master Plotter for the sole reason that he has been the one to actually stomach handling so many different characters, mini-plots and threads all happening all over the forest at the same time. You see, a forest-wide UV plot, is NOT like GM:ing in the normal sense. It's more like being the one to make plots at a live roleplaying session -- plots are thrown out and characters act on it independently, hopefully towards some grander scheme the plotter has in mind. Everyone must have something to do, and since the creatures are spread out over a dozen forum locations, it takes a lot of organisation to handle that -- in fact some plots require more than one plotter just to keep things straight. And since the plotter still must abide to the fact that he usually cannot really control the action as completely as he could had he been a regular GM, but only nudge the events by the actions of his or her PCs (or NPCs as it may be), it poses some very special challenges.

That said, Plotting for the Main Forest Timeline is not something forbidden at all. Right now people are a bit tired of it though, after having a plot that has dragged out for far too long, people seem generally wanting to just skip larger plots and letting everyone go about their business for a while (local plots (and maybe GMed plots in the special fora?) will flourish on the other hand).

---------

Now, back to the concept of evil UV modship. I am a mod myself these days, but for many years I was not. From what Kai has told me, admins or mods at RPGWW have less authority that UV mods. I can only assume this is true, for I don't know RPGWW well enough to compare. And it is also true that it says in the rules that mods at UV should be obeyed (or somesuch). This basically boils down to the fact that if you start insulting anyone or shout profanity or break any of the other basic nettiquette rules, you should heed the mod telling you to stop. Considering this is what mods do everywhere, I see little fault in this, it's just that it's written down in a formal rule. We were bored. So sue us. :)

Natually, the mod's job is to make sure the rules of the board are followed. And one of those rules regulate how to accept characters into the woods.
So one of the mod's duties relate to handling acceptance at the Edge of the forest (this is a special forum where you should first post your character's arrival). The Edge mods check that the character sheets have all that they should have and people come by to RP with the newcomers. As Kai said, this filters out those who makes two posts and then never returns -- because in regular roleplay it can be very annoying to have your character waiting for such a person (timeline, remember, you can only be in one thread at a time).

Generally the Edge-mods point out the things that should be tweaked in the character sheets and the player fixes this -- this is usually minor technical stuff, like forgetting to put down an alignment or somesuch. The Edge moderation has varied over the years and whereas the rules hasn't changed some has nevertheless been looser or had less time to read all threads than others. Our current mods are very serious about their duties and do abide by the few rules that do limit acceptance into the regular timeline (there aren't many).

In Kai's case, as I understand it, it was not made properly clear that some of those older characters had been accepted during one of those "lack" periods and that the rules are enforced stronger these days. It was a misunderstanding that I had thought I had cleared with her.

Finally: The "Secret mod forum." This forum is usually almost exclusively used for things related to Mod duties, rarely for things RP-related. Things like people IP spoofing (one player was found out to have faked 14 accounts under different names last year. Since there is a limit to how many characters you can play, Posting under different secret accounts is a way to cheat and get around that). Also issues on what to do with breaks of nettiquette or people from other boards coming by solely by reason of trolling (yes we've seen that too (they were from a US nationalist group that though something with "Unicorn" in it just had to be made fun of), ezboards has a very strong policy about such things). There have also been various personal requests to the forum that is asked to be kept confidental, for various reasons.
These are all things that need to be discussed by staff, but doesn't really concern the regular members of UV -- these are things which are simply what the mods are there to handle. As Gaeva said in her reply to Kai, those are issues that really only concerns the few who have taken on the work of being mods. Normal UV-politics such as plots and other things are handled in open fora. Kai could be right that the forum should be completely hidden though, I don't know. Traditionally, activity in there has more been seen as a sign of the board staff working their asses off for the community rather than as the cathedral of some omnius shadow council.

That character acceptance issues are brought up in there is rare and is what happens when the Edge mods want to listen in with the rest so that they are not just abritrarily interpreting a rule. As said, this time the feedback from the mods was apparently not clear enough, but we consider this issue to be closed now.


I don't know if this explains anything, but there it is anyway. Once again, I'm not posting this in any official capacity, but just as someone with insight into Unicorn's Visions.

Thanks,
.
Griatch <p><div style="text-align:center"><span style="color:gray;font-family:times;font-size:x-small;">
___________________________
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</span></div></p>Edited by: Griatch at: 11/29/06 13:59

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Idran1701 » Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:18 pm

Quote:

Finally: The "Secret mod forum." This forum is usually almost exclusively used for things related to Mod duties, rarely for things RP-related. Things like people IP spoofing (one player was found out to have faked 14 accounts under different names last year. Since there is a limit to how many characters you can play, Posting under different secret accounts is a way to cheat and get around that). Also issues on what to do with breaks of nettiquette or people from other boards coming by solely by reason of trolling (yes we've seen that too (they were from a US nationalist group that though something with "Unicorn" in it just had to be made fun of), ezboards has a very strong policy about such things). There have also been various personal requests to the forum that is asked to be kept confidental, for various reasons.
These are all things that need to be discussed by staff, but doesn't really concern the regular members of UV -- these are things which are simply what the mods are there to handle. As Gaeva said in her reply to Kai, those are issues that really only concerns the few who have taken on the work of being mods. Normal UV-politics such as plots and other things are handled in open fora. Kai could be right that the forum should be completely hidden though, I don't know. Traditionally, activity in there has more been seen as a sign of the board staff working their asses off for the community rather than as the cathedral of some omnius shadow council.

That character acceptance issues are brought up in there is rare and is what happens when the Edge mods want to listen in with the rest so that they are not just abritrarily interpreting a rule. As said, this time the feedback from the mods was apparently not clear enough, but we consider this issue to be closed now.



Aha. All right, I can understand that. I'm not entirely sure if secrecy is necessary for a forum like that, but I can understand the reasoning for making it such; the majority of goings-on either being private or boring in nature and all. Depending on the commonality of the former, maybe secrecy is necessary for it, I dunno. The impression I got was that RP-related things were more common an occurance within that forum, and that's something that I couldn't see much of a reason to keep private, but it seems that it's just more of a case that in certain uncommon situations, you need to have the opportunity to get the opinion of all mods simultaneously, and because of scheduling issues doing it in chat isn't feasible, so you just need to do it somewhere that you know all the mods will check it.

Speaking as a total outsider to UV, I think that it might be a good idea to have a second, public mod forum for things like this, to let the player have more of a dialogue with the mods over the problems...but thinking about it, it would probably be a logistical mess to ensure that people other than the mods and the relevant player wouldn't be able to post in the thread. It's definitely not something phpBB supports natively from what I've seen, and I don't see any easy way a mod like that would be coded, that wouldn't be a messy hassle with each new thread. If the hassle would be worth the added transparency would depend on how often an RP-related issue came up. And of course if there isn't a pre-existing mod capable of doing this, unless one of you knows a PHP coder then you wouldn't even be able to do it in the first place. <p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Capntastic » Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:39 pm

Griatch, I'd just like to thank you for taking the initiative and coming here to try clear some stuff up; it really makes me smile.

Despite what it may seem from my previous posts, I don't really feel that strongly about UV's different 'style', and am certain that most if not all people are generally groovy and fun to hang out with. While it is lamentable that the same may not always be true were one of us to head to UV; I'm sure if any of you wanted to make a character and chill over here it'd be well recieved and funtimes would commence most assuredly.


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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:55 pm

My first response is, well, if you're going to keep the forum itself visible, then you can make the threads visible--just not repliable except by mods. But that becomes a problem with the whole confidential-informations thing. To which my next response is, why are they doing confidential info exchanges outside of PMs? The response to that is that they didn't have to, because it was private anyway.

Not sure if it's even possible, but even just having the thread *titles* be visible, even if the contents were not accessible, would be a step in the right direction.

It still kind of bothers me that there's one person at the top with absolute authority and an apparent lack of desire for community input, but I may send the Eggplants over there anyway, just to see for myself. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Kai » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:01 pm

I was glad to see a reply from Griatch, because he's willing to explain things that most mods apparently don't feel others deserve justification for. I also find it incomprehensible that nobody found this sooner. I wasn't hiding it.

In answer to Griatch's disappointment in the results of our conversation, I feel like I should note that I've been one foot out the door since this began. I stayed and continued attempting to discuss things only because Griatch gave me some degree of hope that it might be productive. However, the ruling handed down (and the way in which it was done) suggests to me that in any discussion on UV dialogue can only continue until Gaeva speaks up.

At that point, whether or not people are "allowed their own opinion," the only person whose opinion counts has spoken.

The way UV works has no reason to cause me any animosity until I am treated like what I say has less weight not because of any flaw in my statements, but purely because of who I am. Because I don't have the "right" connections to get things done or, in many cases, simply because I am not the admin.

If my voice doesn't matter, I'm going to stop using it on UV. If my views, needs, and requests carry no weight, I have no reason to participate. Where is the incentive if nothing I do matters?

Griatch has informed me that "the mods" bear me no ill will and certainly aren't purposefully driving me off. However, I repeatedly asked to be allowed nothing more than participation in a discussion about me. Denied. When this didn't work, I told them why their disregard for my input was bothering me. Ignored.

Why, then, should I believe that I will be treated any better in the future? Why should I stay?

I talked to Griatch about this and not to Gaeva because Griatch doesn't bring his rank to bear on me when we discuss things. He explains the reasons behind his statements. "The mods" and their mouthpieces have done no such thing. I owed Griatch an explanation because he treats me like a friend and not like a subordinate.

I owed the others no such courtesy. I won't be posting how I "really feel" about my experience with the moderators and their secret discussions because there's no point. Even if there were a chance that any opinion of mine carried any weight under any circumstances... I quite frankly don't feel that I owe an explanation to people who saw no reason to communicate openly with me.

Maybe Gaeva would call this "tact." I'd call it disillusionment and eventual apathy, but hey. Tact can apparently mean anything nowadays.

As Zero stated, individuals from UV are more than welcome to associate with RPGWW to any degree they're comfortable with. I can promise with confidence that they'll be treated better here than I was during my short time at Unicorn's Visions. <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=kai@rpgww60462>Kai</A]&nbsp; Image at: 11/29/06 15:02

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:23 pm

If my voice doesn't matter, I'm going to stop using it on UV. If my views, needs, and requests carry no weight, I have no reason to participate. Where is the incentive if nothing I do matters?

Well, that RP is fun. That's why people are there. That's why people are still there, despite the monarchy.

Yes, it's sad (and that sucks) that the reasoning from On High can be as small as "Because I said so." But the community agrees to it--they participate in this monarchy willingly, and don't try to pretend that it's a democracy in disguise. It won't suit everyone, that's for damned sure, but there is apparently a set of people who dig it. Can't hate on 'em for that.

Still, though, the whole thing with Blue's 'freaking out' incident does bother me. Shouldn't people in the upper echelons have a bit thicker skin than that?

I also wonder, is it possible to have a reasoned, civil discussion with Gaeva about things that are not UV? Just to see if she is the kind of person who would accept a reasoned, well-thought argument. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Kai » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:25 pm

Gaeva's perfectly reasonable. I've had discussions with her that were productive and rational.

Whatever I may think of the way she views/treats members, she is not irrational or a bad person. She just has an approach that makes me... not want to be her subordinate.

Edit: Griatch and I discussed this one last time, and I decided that since I'm the only one who's bothered by this system, it's my job to leave. I really don't care about changing a system that works for everyone else there, but something about the "us versus you" tone of emails from a group of people who have been deliberating in secret just bugged me, and I think it would have continued to bother me.

It's better for everyone if I just distance myself. Even if it means losing a neat place to roleplay and, more importantly, losing a friend... it's better if I don't frequent that forum anymore. If they see this as me having a tantrum and leaving, so be it.

Kai came, Kai played, Kai had an issue, nobody else saw it as a problem, Kai left.

I don't know how much else there is to say. <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=kai@rpgww60462>Kai</A]&nbsp; Image at: 11/29/06 16:25

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:30 pm

Well hell, the fact that you don't like the way RPs are run there basically means you shouldn't RP there. You don't have to lose contacts and not be part of the community if you don't want that. I know that with as cool a guy as Griatch apparently is, I'd keep contact with him at the very least. Even if it had nothing to do with UV in the future. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Kai » Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:34 pm

Not possible, I think. The only way I have of contacting him is through UV. In their chat room, in the IRC channel he made for them, on their board. It's part of why I was so reluctant to separate myself from the forum entirely, but I feel like I should, if only for the continued sanity of people on all sides.

So, the ball is in his court. If he's ever comfortable with it in the future he can IM me or email me, but as much as I'd like him to stay in touch, he probably has little reason to do so. <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Seethe347 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:30 am

Griatch's post and a few hours of thought seem to have gotten me interested in trying that forum out for myself if I decide I have enough spare time soon. It seems to me that a player's influence on the FV setting isn't really too much less than his or her influence would be here. It's just that a player here influences the setting more by OOC activities while a player there influences the setting by IC activities. Personally, I'm fairly interested in finding out how much influence my characters can actually gain through IC politics. In my estimation, I might actually be able to gain more IC influence there than I have so far managed to here, to tell the truth.

Edit: Actually, my IC influence here is close to nil since I'm never on AIM where the CIRP all happens, so it wouldn't be hard for me to gain more IC influence there at all.

Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=seethe347>Seethe347</A] at: 11/30/06 2:01

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Kai » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:48 am

You're right in noting that RPGWW has a good chunk of its activities take place on AIM. The board serves partly as an anchor for all of the people who meet in chat or roleplay on a semi-regular basis. If you're not on AIM as much, you might do better on a forum where nothing happens in a chat room. They do have a chat room, but it's hosted on the same server as their board and it's browser-based, so that might be easier for you.

As for influencing the setting ICly on UV... by all means. Give it a go. You're right in noting that more OOC "influence" happens on RPGWW, as it didn't seem like as much OOC activity went on UV-side as it does here. To balance that, they seem to have a lot more RP. The CIRPs all happen board-side, and they're actually more the norm than plots as we tend to run them. Because they're on the board, they are a little slower and at times more involved. If that sounds more your style than a lot of the AIM-centered stuff we do, then by all means see if UV would suit your needs better. They do have some very good RPers.

As far as a player's "influence," I think our opinions may differ on that note, but perhaps UV's political style may be more to your liking. You really can do things there like play good characters, run interesting plots, and meet groovy people. It's just that there's entirely too much of a need to answer to the one person who "owns" the board and the setting for my taste. If you wouldn't mind that, then the central problem I had may not be an issue for you.

My issue wasn't with the quality of RP, as I had mostly been RPing with Griatch. My issue was with the fact that I don't believe any person should have to obey another person unless they can be convinced to do so. In that vein, respect must be earned on an individual basis and doesn't necessarily come hand in hand with rank.

I could care less about what power a person on RPGWW has to edit posts or lock threads. Do you really think that Idran would pop into a thread and end discussion simply because he was Idran and he had spoken? Even if we do move the forum to his webspace, I can't imagine Idran deciding he doesn't have to explain things any more, that his word has suddenly become law.

We have some red tape, sure. Our dominant setting is a collaborative one, so we've got no shortage of people who've got a stake in how it's used. But there's no sense here that one person can or should be consulted for everything.

It wouldn't be fair for me to expect all roleplaying forums to be RPGWW, but if I don't enjoy the experience of being someplace on the internet, my right to control how I spend my spare time means that I quite simply don't have to be there.

If you think you'd enjoy it because my issues wouldn't bother you, I have no trouble believing that. Nobody else on UV seems to mind these things, either. At least, nobody that's said anything. The system definitely works over there, just not for me. <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=kai@rpgww60462>Kai</A]&nbsp; Image at: 11/30/06 10:17

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Seethe347 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:53 pm

Quote:
As far as a player's "influence," I think our opinions may differ on that note[...]


Actually, the way I worded my opinion on that was probably inaccurate. In fact, players there would have quite a bit less influence since they can't GM "in-timeline" or create/alter settings. It would take far more effort there to achieve the same amount of change that could be achieved relatively easily here. There are quite a few advantages to our way for someone who, as I do, has ambitions for GMing and large-scale contributions to the setting. But the advantage to their system, which is what makes me want to try their forum, is that a character's influence is highly dependant on the player's political skill. That makes for a game that I'd like to try playing.

I'm definitely not leaving RPGWW though. There are quite a few aspirations I have here. I also intend to come to chat more often "sometime in the future." When that actually happens just depends on when I manage to get enough free time without spending it on video games.


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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Kai » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:02 pm

Quote:
But the advantage to their system, which is what makes me want to try their forum, is that a character's influence is highly dependant on the player's political skill.


Yeah, that attracted me for a while as well. I think the main reason I wasn't able to sustain that interest was that I wasn't there to study them; I wasn't there to mastermind anything. I was honestly hoping to assimilate myself into their group without manipulating their existing structure.

I think that's the main reason this isn't a formal study of that forum. I wasn't there to study them as a curious outsider like I so often do. I was there to participate, but when that proved to be less fulfilling than I'd hoped, my primary reason for being there died.

If you're interested in playing their game, I have no doubt that you'll do just fine. I'll be interested to see how it turns out. I have every reason to believe you'll do much better than I did. <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Idran1701 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:55 pm

...Wait, wait, wait. So my word isn't god?



Well, I wish someone had told me this sooner. <p>

"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Kai » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:29 am

Well, I am an admin, too. So I got all of my mods together in a chat room and we all decided that you're not omnipotent. We were eventually going to notify you. <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Capntastic » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:41 am

Yeah in fact you have to go to the edge of the forest and wait for your contact before introducing any new characters.


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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Idran1701 » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:02 am

What's a new character? <p>

"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Seethe347 » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:13 am

By the way, if anyone wants to look me up over there for some reason, I'll probably be joining under the screen name of "Luxon Cobrat," since that's a name a few of the people I've noticed on there will be more likely to recognize.


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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Kai » Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:28 am

Zero: I actually think that their system of character acceptance looks a hell of a lot more useful than in many places. I mean, sure once you've posted a sheet you have to wait for a moderator of that forum to give you the okay before moving to other parts of the forum. But the best thing it does is ensure that all new players get a chance to, well... play. They essentially guarantee you as much of an introductory CI as you want right off the bat. <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Capntastic » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:55 pm

It is helpful in some ways, but only if it works within the locale for all 'newcomers' to pass through a single area.

It wouldn't work on Gaera very well- but I would be glad if we set up intro CIs at the request of newcomers here to help 'em get acquainted. We could even give 'em a slight geography lesson and let them choose which area would make the most sense for 'em. Keeping in mind, though, that not all new characters are 'new' to, say, Doma, and may have lived there their whole life.


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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Kai » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:49 pm

Agreed. It wouldn't work as well for Gaera because there's too much in-game space. One thing I have to tell new folks a lot when they come is that our setting looks really detailed, and like you have to know a whole shit-ton of stuff to play. The main thing is that we're trying to make sure there's a place established to do just about anything, or at least a way to establish a place should the need arise.

The wiki is helping us keep setting info compiled and easy to reference, and I think the next step is putting up some kind of condensed version. If nothing else, perhaps that's something I can get to in a couple of weeks once finals crap is done with. <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>

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Re: A Guide to Unicorn's Visions for the Uninitiated

Unread postby Capntastic » Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:37 am

I actually had a person I knew from school check out RPGWW from a totally blank standpoint (Not even knowing what my account was here!), and she said that it looked like a friendly and fun place, but knowing that there were all sorts of different guides and wikis and homebrew systems made her feel like she'd have to learn a second language just to feel like she was 'doing it right'. Of course, she is the type of person who wants to make an astounding impression upon people, and not have to burden anyone with question...

Other people, of course, may not be so inclined to become familiar with all obscure aspects of our 'little world', and are content just to leap in and hope (or not care!) that they aren't making a complete trainwreck out of everything. At one time, I was this sort of person, and even now I probably can't name all the continents or recite the history of Riva.

I feel that no matter what type of person shows up, it is super-important that they understand that first and foremost we are a group of friends and pals, and not a council of rule enforcers. It is also important to have a simple, one-stop shop for basic information that does not branch off into dozens of links to secondary sources- I've been working on a sort of RPGWW Primer, but I am a lazy bastard and have barely got the skeleton of it set.

I sort of lost steam because I'm hungry, but the condensed version of my thoughts in this post are:
1. New people should become acquainted with the community and its doings easily.
2. Newcomers don't need to know all of the material.
3. But they should know the important, useful, and interesting basics.
4. RPGWW strives to create a fun and friendly community of pals and roleplayers. Rolepalyers?
5. We are not related to the RPGW comic. Or that Games Workshop dude.


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