The Temple of Elemental Evil

[darkknight61189]

Has anyone played this game yet? It's a Dungeons & Dragons game, and I saw it while browsing around on GameFAQs.com. I remember explaining to my friend the thing that made D&D so much better than, for example, Baldur's Gate and other such RPGs that emulate the D&D style. Since this game seems to be endorsed by WOTC, I was wondering if it actually came anywhere near close to being a good representation of our favorite tabletop roleplaying game.

[Idran1701]

You do know that all the D&D-based games were endorsed by TSR/WoTC just as much as this one, right? <p>

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"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
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[Wolfbelly]

I'd imagine he didn't Idran.

Having played the game, I did find it refreshing to see that it very, very, very closely followed the tabletop DnD combat system, what with 5 foot steps, attacks of opportunity and all that wonderful jazz.

As a game though, I found it hard to get into. But that's because I'm not an overly big fan of that style. <p></p>

[Phil]

Here are a few rules of thumb for determining if a video game is, as we say in the chemistry department, "an utter pile of fetid shit."

1. Any computer game published by Atari that sells for $15.00 is automatically not very good.
2. Any game in which a rogue is useless because of bugs in the game that allow you to WALK THROUGH FRIGGING LOCKED DOORS is also automatically not very good.
3. Any game in which a dead character screams "I DIIIIIIIIE!" at the top of their lungs in a low quality audio sample while reciving a mortal wound is also, you guessed it, automatically not a very good game.
4. If the meat of the game revolves around smacking around 500 of almost exactly the same enemy and nothing else, you can be assured that the game won't be fun.
5. If the final areas of the game involve creatures that cannot be killed by any weapon in the game, it makes baby Jesus cry.
6. If the role playing portion of the game involves situations mostly beyond your control, and makes no difference in the overall game blah blah blah and you probably get the idea.

You may see a pattern here. If you guessed that the pattern here is that all of these features are included in the pile of dog shit that masquerades as a computer game called "Temple of Elemental Evil," you'd be almost right. The game violates all laws except number four, because the game occasionally throws hobgoblins and an ogre or two in to break up the tide of orcs.

In other words, this is basically D&D minus the fun. I wish Atari had just shot my dad or something instead of selling me this game.

[BrainWalker]

Phil's post was worth reading for that bit at the end, there. <p><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

[Spleen]

Darkknight should also note that no computer game could ever come close to playing D&D under a real Dungeon Master. Many have tried to substitute computers for the DM, all have failed. This is why anyone who makes quips like "We have video games now" or "Why don't you join the 21st century and play a current game?" should be shot on sight.

</tangent> <p>-_-___-___-___-_-

"The universe is all in the mind that perceives it, and sensation is the first and only reality. If a tree falls in the forest with no creature to hear it, then there is no tree."
-Dungeons and Dragons: Complete Arcane, page 167

Arch mage144: Spleen doesn't bother with penis size contests; instead, he goes straight to penis number.</p>

[Idran1701]

Phil's post makes me sad, since I was hoping that the first actual Greyhawk PC game might actually be good. :( <p>

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"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
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[RedEye Dragon89]

Quote:

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Any game in which a dead character screams "I DIIIIIIIIE!" at the top of their lungs in a low quality audio sample while reciving a mortal wound is also, you guessed it, automatically not a very good game.

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I request this audio sample.

[darkknight61189]

Spleen: You misunderstand. We've been through this before, and I've been with you all along. I never thought that this game could possibly come close to taking the role of a DM. I just wanted to know how close (or how far in this case) it came.

Idran: Do you mean to tell me that Dungeon Siege was endorsed by WoTC? I don't mean games that actually try to simulate D&D persay, just pretty much any game that has a monster called Orc or a player class called Knight/Paladin. There are a few more games like that, but only Dungeon Siege comes to mind.

(Then again, Dungeon Siege is a cheap knockoff of Diablo... which is WoTC made... Hm...)

Phil: While you're sending Idran a copy, send one my way as well. I'm curious to hear. <p>

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<div style="text-align:center"></div>
"En Taro Washington!" -Spleen.</p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=darkknight61189>darkknight61189</A]&nbsp; at: 4/16/06 18:18

[Archmage144]

A: Wizards of the Coast did not make Diablo. Blizzard Entertainment did.

B: Neverwinter Nights? Baldur's Gate? Baldur's Gate II? Icewind Dale? There are how many Wizards/TSR "endorsed" games? If you want to use the D&D system in any form for a video game and put a label on the box that says "uses D&D!" like in NWN, you have to get the rights for it. <p>

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RPGWW Wiki!</div></p>

[Idran1701]

Yeah, I'm talking about actually using, well, d20 nowadays, but the actual AD&D rules back when. And don't forget the older 1st-person games: Azure Bands, Pool of Radiance, Eye of the Beholder, etc. <p>

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"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
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[Archmage144]

I knew those were endorsed, the names just weren't coming. I think they also may have endorsed some sort of 3D equivalent of nethack called Dungeon Hack that didn't sell very well. <p>

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RPGWW Wiki!</div></p>

[darkknight61189]

Gah, that's right, Diablo was Blizzard, not WoTC. For some reason those two got mixed into one. ANyhow, I didn't mean games that had on the label "Uses D&D" but look at Diablo. It uses pretty much the same sort of system as D&D.

Anywho, I guess my question was answered by Idran a few posts back. <p>

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<div style="text-align:center"></div>
"En Taro Washington!" -Spleen.</p>

[Archmage144]

D&D has a skill point system that lets you purchase lists of spells and passive abilities from a talent tree based on your class? <p>

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RPGWW Wiki!</div></p>

[Idran1701]

Yeah, I don't really see any similarity between D&D and Diablo either beyond vague surface similarities like "they both have stats" and "they both have XP". <p>

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"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
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[darkknight61189]

No, it doesn't, but it does have a damage roll a lot like that in D&D. Damages are ranges, not like in some games where your attack does a set amount of damage. If you get lucky, you do more damage. If you're not lucky, you do less. Strength directly affects the amount of damage you do to the enemy, and although you don't buy spells with points in D&D, you are given a number of extra spells each time you level up, which can then be chosen from a list (if you're a spontaneous caster, of course). <p>

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<div style="text-align:center"></div>
"En Taro Washington!" -Spleen.</p>

[Idran1701]

...Wait, if that's all it is, then Diablo sounds to me a lot like GURPS too. And Exalted. And Abberant. And Paranoia. And Call of Cthulhu.

My point is those are things Diablo has in common with pretty much every P&P system, not D&D specifically. None of those are unique concepts to D&D, nor were they when Diablo was made. Plus, spontaneous casters didn't exist when Diablo came out, I'm fairly certain...I'm gonna check that.

Edit: All right, they did, but just barely. Diablo came out in November 1996, while spontaneous casters (known in the then-current Second Edition as merely a spell point based system used by normal mages, not a separate class) first appeared in the Player's Option: Spells and Magic supplement which was first printed in May 1996.

But even keeping that in mind, I'd still say the Vance-like memorization was still one of the trademarks of D&D at the time (less-so now, I'd say), while spell point-based casting is really still evidence that Diablo was not directly based on D&D any more than the Dragon Warrior series. <p>

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"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
</p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=idran1701>Idran1701</A] at: 4/19/06 8:55

[darkknight61189]

Well, either way, the point of this thread has been served.

Verdict: Temple of Elemental Evil is another load of crap game. <p>

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<div style="text-align:center"></div>
"En Taro Washington!" -Spleen.</p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=darkknight61189>darkknight61189</A]&nbsp; at: 4/19/06 21:12

[Spleen]

You're damn right they're not allowed, bitch. <p>-_-___-___-___-_-

"The universe is all in the mind that perceives it, and sensation is the first and only reality. If a tree falls in the forest with no creature to hear it, then there is no tree."
-Dungeons and Dragons: Complete Arcane, page 167

Arch mage144: Spleen doesn't bother with penis size contests; instead, he goes straight to penis number.</p>

[darkknight61189]

That's strange.... I don't recall putting any HTML in there.... at all... <p>

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<div style="text-align:center"></div>
"En Taro Washington!" -Spleen.</p>