Much Kitty Sadness

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Celeste of Elvenhame
 

Much Kitty Sadness

Unread postby Celeste of Elvenhame » Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:49 pm

OKay on the theory that I am going to move in with my Sister I gave up two of my three cats. Now, because the bloody navy can't make up it's mind, I am about to lose my third since I can't keep him where I am currently staying. I am so frustrated and upset that I am losing my familar, it just doesn't seem right. I am giving up just about everything to be closer to her and I am getting no help from her end. In fact losing my familar because of this may be a last straw on this idea.

I guess there's no real point to this post other than trying to blow off some steam on how upset I am. <p>-----Celeste of Elvenhame--------

</p>

Wolfbelly
 

Re: Much Kitty Sadness

Unread postby Wolfbelly » Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:12 am

Well ... if this event is happening, and your life is moving forward, then it's your fate to give up your familiar for this cause. Instead of seeing it as a negative situation that's inhibiting you, see it as an opportunity for advancement. Now you get to embark on a learning experience where you try to retain your current level of awesomeness sans familiar. <p>Image</p>

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PriamNevhausten
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Re: Much Kitty Sadness

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:56 am

Perhaps this is a test of trust. Do you trust your Sister enough to give up a friend you've loved for longer for her sake?

This whole thing sounds like you're on the business end of an ultimatum. "Him, or me," she says. The funny thing about issuing ultimata is that the issuer very rarely finds the outcome to be to his or her liking.

(On a complete aside, I wonder how you seriously taking this, and if it's Wicca or some other sort of spiritualism with 'other' rules and conventions. If the former is the case, then there's also the Skyclad Coven of Thirteen that most don't observe, as well as the necessary symbols of blood and so forth...very unpleasant, but it's not a 'convenient' religion for the masses.) <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

Celeste of Elvenhame
 

Re: Much Kitty Sadness

Unread postby Celeste of Elvenhame » Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:56 pm

It's not an ultimatimum it's a matter of their being no place to put him until my indefinate date of moving. Or having the money to board him. <p>-----Celeste of Elvenhame--------

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PriamNevhausten
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Re: Much Kitty Sadness

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:54 am

Got relatives or friends who would put him up for a while? <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

Celeste of Elvenhame
 

Re: Much Kitty Sadness

Unread postby Celeste of Elvenhame » Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:33 pm

my brother was/is watching him, but he;s moving and won't e ale to watch him anymore parents won't do it and none of my friends live in places that allow pets *sigh* <p>-----Celeste of Elvenhame--------

</p>

The Great Nevareh
 

Re: Much Kitty Sadness

Unread postby The Great Nevareh » Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:24 am

Pardon me for asking this, as this is in the Discussion Forum and this should be immune to inanity, but... your familiar? As in, your sorcerous sidekick that's connected to you by webs of magick that you can send out to do your bidding as well as serve as a companion that provides information and advice as necessary?

On topic:

What does giving up your cat entail? If you mean make him/her a stray or putting him/her to sleep, it seems terribly unfair. How old is he/she, anyway? <p>[---------------------------]
"There is great disorder under Heaven, and the situation is excellent."
-Mao Tse-Tung

"I eat the talking bees because I am George Washington Christ"
-From "Bob the Ball"</p>

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Kai
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Re: Much Kitty Sadness

Unread postby Kai » Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:14 pm

"Or you can call your cat a familiar and your cookbook a grimoire [accidentally, of course] ...the list goes on.)"

Sorry. I was more or less raised by my cat. I would kill just about anything that threatened to harm her or take her from me. But you're trivializing what should be a very serious magical topic. Your familiar. Familiars are much more unusual than one would think, and I find it odd that you made a point to let us all know that's what your cat is to you.

A lot of people here probably won't say this because they don't want to seem bigoted. Well. That's fine. I'm saying it. I understand that your cat means a lot to you, and I respect that more than I can convey. But the whole "I must announce my religious affiliation" thing doesn't work for me. <p>-------------------------
"It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But the half-wit remains a half-wit and the emperor remains an emperor." -- Sandman "The Kindly Ones" </p>

Celeste of Elvenhame
 

Re: Much Kitty Sadness

Unread postby Celeste of Elvenhame » Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:41 pm

I am a Wiccan.


Now I have announced my religious affiliation. Before was no different than a Christian mentioning God in passing as he is so much a part of their life. A familar is much the same to me.


Proceed with more foaming at the mouth if it makes your small mind feel better. <p>-----Celeste of Elvenhame--------

</p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=celesteofelvenhame>Celeste] at: 8/30/05 17:48

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Kai
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Now things get interesting!

Unread postby Kai » Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:45 pm

Quote:
Proceed with more foaming at the mouth if it makes your small mind feel better.


It took me more than a minute to type a reply because I was laughing so hard. Because another pagan would never dare to criticize one of their own, would they? I must be some nasty nasty Christian fundamentalist. <p>-------------------------
"It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But the half-wit remains a half-wit and the emperor remains an emperor." -- Sandman "The Kindly Ones" </p>

Celeste of Elvenhame
 

Re: Now things get interesting!

Unread postby Celeste of Elvenhame » Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:49 pm

Actuallly no. I was mentioning the most acceptable alternative as most people would understand the illustration. <p>-----Celeste of Elvenhame--------

</p>

Archmage144
 

Re: Now things get interesting!

Unread postby Archmage144 » Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:52 pm

I dunno. I'm a pretty serious, faithful Christian, but I've never proclaimed that I was having a great moral dilemma on a message board because my girlfriend put the Gideon Bible in the refridgerator when we stayed in a hotel room.

Partly because I didn't, and partly because I don't feel I need to wear my religion on my sleeve with everything I say. <p>
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Kai
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Re: Now things get interesting!

Unread postby Kai » Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:53 pm

I understand the analogy you made. But the fact remains that you called me small-minded even though you know next to nothing about me or my own perspective on the issue. You'd been criticized and that's all you needed to hear.

Pot? This is kettle. You're black. <p>-------------------------
"It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But the half-wit remains a half-wit and the emperor remains an emperor." -- Sandman "The Kindly Ones" </p>

Celeste of Elvenhame
 

Re: Now things get interesting!

Unread postby Celeste of Elvenhame » Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:07 pm

I thought your link made your perspective pretty clear.....or are you saying you don't agree with what you quoted? Perhaps I made a wrong assumption, if so I apologize and would appreciate enlightenment as to what your views are.

As for wearing my religion on my sleeve....*shrugs* Whatever. To me it is part of the reason I am so bent out of the shape over the whole issue. I vented...it eased my pain. I don't feel the need to apologize.

I am sure I will hear on why friends are better to vent to and yada, yada. However, I have too many friends who think I want comfort of their help fixing the problem rather than letting me just talk things out on a sympathetic ear. Must come from having a lot of men friends. So this is my lame substitute for talking things out on a sympathetic ear.

<p>-----Celeste of Elvenhame--------

</p>

Archmage144
 

Re: Now things get interesting!

Unread postby Archmage144 » Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:33 pm

Hey, if all you need is a sympathetic ear, someone's always available for that, and I don't particularly mind being a sympathetic ear in most cases. However, some personal issues have a completely different tone depending on how they're presented. Consider:

"My girlfriend and I are having relationship problems. I feel like she and I might be drifting apart. She's been spending a lot of time doing things without me and telling me she 'needs more personal space,' but we haven't done so much as have a face-to-face conversation in almost a week."

Or:

"My girlfriend is being a bitch. I think she's cheating on me with that prick Cody and lying to me about how she's 'spending time with her girl friends. The stupid whore hasn't even returned my phone calls all week."

Pretty extreme example, but extreme examples are occasionally valuable. Note that you in no way did this, precisely, it was just an example of how you can describe the same problem in radically different ways and how rewording something can make it somewhat inflammatory. Consider:

"I'm having a problem. I'm planning to get a new roommate, but she won't let me keep my cat because she (doesn't like them, is allergic, insert reason here). I have a very close relationship with my cat and don't want to give her up."

"I'm having a problem. I want to move in with my Coven Sister but she's not going to let me keep my familiar because she doesn't like cats. This is grossly offensive to the goddess, and I can't believe a fellow Sister is willing to trample my spiritual link with my familiar like this."

Now, while I don't mind that your religion is apparently part of the issue, because it's perfectly natural, I think I'd be ridiculed if I said I had an issue moving in with my new roommate because he won't let me build a shrine to the Great Spaghetti Monster, or because he doesn't want a crucifix hanging on the living room wall (which is vitally important to my faith). I'm not Wiccan, obviously, but I think people would identify much better with your situation (and as such, be able to offer greater sympathy) if you hadn't made it very clear that there was some intangible spiritual/religious bond here that no one else in the entire world could possibly understand. I'm also not "persecuting" you for your belief system or whatever, or at least I don't think so--but in my eyes, you made what could be considered a relatively mundane (but no less important) issue regarding your affection for your pet into an issue of life and death regarding your spirtually blood-bonded magical helper. Considering the fact that I am willing to doubt that the majority of people here believe in "real" magick (or however it should be appropriately spelled, I apologize if I'm not up on these things), and that I can count myself among those people that doesn't (though if I bore witness to it, and it were repeatable, my belief in scientific methods and principles would force me to acknowledge it).

To wit, for the casual forum reader this is not about your cat. If it were, the situation would be much simpler (at least, for me--I can't speak for everyone). This situation is about some greater, faith-related issue that most people are not going to understand ("it's just a cat," "your cat might be a good companion, but your 'familiar?'" and so on). Personally, I'm compelled to suppress any opinion I might have, because the last thing I would want to do is say, "you know, it's just a cat," or whatever, because if my solution or suggestion isn't just sensitive enough to your apparent spiritual needs, I'm going to get berated for being an asshole.

Actually, I might get berated for being an asshole for this post. I have a lot of amusing opinions about religion, and I don't think I feel like having a flamewar about them right now, so I'll cease at the moment.

Anyway, just consider. Although, I suppose if your intent was to vent and you didn't care what responses you got, my post was pretty much pointless anyway. Pretty much. <p>
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The Great Nevareh
 

Re: Now things get interesting!

Unread postby The Great Nevareh » Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:35 pm

As a partial practicioner of the alternative arts (I can tell fortunes!) I just think the whole process of proclaiming your cat a familiar is kind of... erm... over-dramatic? Did you bind him/her/it to you in a ceremony? Did you summon a totemic spirit guide and that guide appeared to you in its totem form of a cat, which has then guided and helped you with life? Did some divine creature appear and provide you with inspiration as to that your cat will be of great use and/or was your sister/wife/mother in your previous lives, thus you have a deep arcane connection to it? I mean, where did your calling your feline companion your familiar come from? <p>[---------------------------]
"There is great disorder under Heaven, and the situation is excellent."
-Mao Tse-Tung

"I eat the talking bees because I am George Washington Christ"
-From "Bob the Ball"</p>

Archmage144
 

Re: Now things get interesting!

Unread postby Archmage144 » Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:00 pm

I think Nevareh also managed to express more or less what I was saying in a more touchy-feely way that is somehow infinitely better than I was able to accomplish. Props to Nev. <p>
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Celeste of Elvenhame
 

Re: Now things get interesting! or

Unread postby Celeste of Elvenhame » Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:19 pm

Actually my Sister from past lives, happens to occupy a human body.

Last I checked one sook a familar out or familar sought you. He protects my house and myself. He does communicate with me although I admit my understanding can be lacking. He came to me before I took up the study of Wicca. There was no hail of light or divine disembodied voice announcing to the heavens the prescence of my familar. I have read several books on familars and he fits the bill for descripition as a physical familar. My totem? Don't know yet, might learn later this week at my Shaman class. At least I hope I will. Linda cautioned me they don't always reveal themselves immediately. I may or may not get to know him/her/it/whatever right away.

Edit: Also: I never meant to imply no one could possibly understand how I feel. I do however lack sufficient commmand of the English to properly express my emotions. It's one of my flaws. I've never been good with expresssing myself or getting out things I want to say without coming off as an ass or making myself into one. Hence the reason most of the time I don't bother try trying cause usually when I try I just put my foot even further in my mouth. <p>-----Celeste of Elvenhame--------

</p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=celesteofelvenhame>Celeste] at: 8/30/05 22:22

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PriamNevhausten
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Re: Now things get interesting! or

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:49 am

I am so very proud that someone else posted the link to whywiccanssuck before I did.

On the wicca front. I wonder if you ever had that Binding removed. That one that you willingly participated in. I wonder if Bindings CAN be removed if they were entered willingly. I wonder again if you've actually done the research on your claimed religion, or if this is a vague-feeling-i-think-this-is-kind-of-like-it sort of spiritualism venture for you that you happen to be giving the name Wicca, without understanding what Wicca officially is and means.

As for the cat/familiar/whatever thing, I can't really offer any more advice or help beyond the aforementioned 'find a friend who can help you for a while, possibly for a fee' business. Do not give up on (Ta/Claude, choose one) so easily that you fail to exhaust every single possible route you have even remotely at your disposal. All your compatriots, all your acquaintances, collegiate friends, whatever--if this cat is important to you, it is worth trying and hard. Just don't lose hope and keep at it. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=priamnevhausten>PriamNevhausten</A]&nbsp; Image at: 8/31/05 1:47

The Great Nevareh
 

Re: Now things get interesting! or

Unread postby The Great Nevareh » Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:44 am

This is why I don't give a strong name or affiliation to the interesting bastard spirituality/mysticism that I follow. I'm Jewish in theory to the degree that I follow maybe a tenth of the teachings of the Scoll of Law (the Torah. The vast majority of the stuff it asks you to do is a bit infeasible without restricting yourself to a very, VERY... interesting lifestyle.) Though the WWS page has me redeveloping my urge to study magick(which I actually did at one point albeit not very well- you try researching something as esoteric as practical magicianship with no resources).

Besides, I'm just making fun of your choice of words. To further AM's stated point, on a board like this you're ASKING for trouble when you refer to a pet, no matter how close, as a semisupernatural ally that is bound to you, soul to soul. It's nothing personal, it's just a developed dislike of unneccesary melodrama; If I were to post in this board about a particularly painful breakup and I talked about true love, soul-matedness, and I were to go into great detail about how I was hurt, I probably would recieve a better reaction than if I were to refer to the same thing entirely in terms of auras, psychic warfare, the embrace and rejection of spirit avatars, and the endless torment that I am now facing in the embrace of Xin, the god of lost lovers... no matter how much I believed that the latter were true. This is probably due to the... erm... "close-mindedness" of the board since we're "foaming at the mouth," but attaching some kind of cosmic significance to stuff just doesn't really go over well in general, especially at a board whose entire original stated purpose is to practice roleplaying in a realistic fantasy environment.

In other words: Don't call your cat your familiar no matter how much you believe it to be true since, likely, no one else here will let you say it without a fight. It's just too hard for me (and some other people) to take seriously.

Finally, you never answered my question of what "giving up" your cat would entail. I can't really offer suggestions unless I know what's at stake. <p>[---------------------------]
"There is great disorder under Heaven, and the situation is excellent."
-Mao Tse-Tung

"I eat the talking bees because I am George Washington Christ"
-From "Bob the Ball"</p>

Wolfbelly
 

You people are dicks

Unread postby Wolfbelly » Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:46 am

Okay, I've been away for quite some time, so maybe things have changed, or maybe I never noticed before, but whatever happened to saying whatever you feel like saying and not having to worry how the masses take it?

Kai, you SO deserved the response you got. Your post was basically "Link to 'why wiccans suck.' filler material. closing note on how you're being an attention whore." Dude! Own up to it! You were being a dick, and if Celeste is getting lectured on how she could have phrased her post better to have not received a negative reaction, then you should be reading that lecture and taking notes on how to avoid being called a small-minded dick.

Also, isn't there a pretty huge christian feel on this board? Whenever someone goes into ANYTHING Christian, do people start going on and on about their faith? Asking them if Jesus showed up in a blaze of light? If God talks to them on occasion? If the holy spirit answers their prayers, etc.? No, we accept it and move the fuck on. So Celeste's beliefs are out there. If you think she's crazy, fucking say she's crazy. Don't lecture her on how to fit in. That's like taking a switch to the negro child because he's trying to mingle with the caucasians. People are different, accept the differences.

*shakes head*

Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=wolfbelly>Wolfbelly</A] at: 8/31/05 2:07

The Great Nevareh
 

Re: Now things get interesting! or

Unread postby The Great Nevareh » Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:18 am

Vague difference, though, since people here rarely drop hints as to how Jesus showed up and helped them with their gardening or that the Archangel Gabriel comes in and hangs out with them on occasion, nor do they mention that their weekend trip to Heaven was great and so they're going to be extra virtuous so they can get back in.

As for the reaction to Kai: Wolfbelly DOES have a point. There isn't even proof previously in the thread other than her saying the word "familiar" that Celeste is anything in particular. You don't need to be Wiccan to have a familiar. She could just be a practicing sorcerer with absolutely no Wiccan ties whatsoever, YET the WWS page was linked anyway. Linking a webpage that talks about how the author can't stand Wiccans BEFORE CELESTE MENTIONS THAT SHE'S WICCAN is kind of standing up and being an asshole on general principle (which is something that I can easily be accused of). The "foaming at the mouth" bit isn't that baseless of an accusation since the thread wasn't even ABOUT anything RELATED to Wicca before the WWS link was authored. I was curious about the useage of the word "familiar" since I don't usually associate it (the noun) with real life.

Then again, this is probably my fault to begin with, and as this isn't a spam topic I really should be ashamed for opening the door for it being treated like one. Thus, I'm sorry for the consternation I've caused.

Side note: I'd bristle less if you spelled "Familiar" correctly.

Thank you, Wolfbelly. I just realized how unhelpful of an ass I'm being for no particular reason and I owe you a debt of gratitude so I'd know to apologize for my wrongdoing. And no, I'm not being sarcastic (for once.) <p>[---------------------------]
"There is great disorder under Heaven, and the situation is excellent."
-Mao Tse-Tung

"I eat the talking bees because I am George Washington Christ"
-From "Bob the Ball"</p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thegreatnevareh>The] at: 8/31/05 2:22

Wolfbelly
 

Re: Now things get interesting! or

Unread postby Wolfbelly » Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:21 am

My work here is done

*flies away* <p>Image</p>

SuperRube
 

Re: You people are dicks

Unread postby SuperRube » Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:24 am

Hey, I worked hard to drill intolerance into these little fucks... so don't you go trying do undo any of that you... you... Salad Fingers watcher you.

Anyhow... this whole mess is why I still follow the ways of an apithist. God may or may not exist. Anyone who says anything diferent may or may not be crazy. This is my hard and fast belief until something changes my mind. Or not.

...oh wait, that wasn't the orgininal topic. Uh... Cats. Yeah, I got nothing against those. <p>
"Dreamcast's hardware was entirely 64-bit except for a single 128-bit internal math coprocessor. That little chunk of silicon didn't make DC a 128-bit system any more than my grandmother's artificial knee makes her a cybernetic super-soldier." --Jeremy Parish</p>

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PriamNevhausten
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Re: You people are dicks

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:01 am

I do, though. Stinky, sharp-clawed buggers. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

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Kai
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<flamewar>

Unread postby Kai » Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:20 am

Okay. This is going to be a long one.

Wolfbelly: "Kai is a narrow-minded asshole for expressing opinions which others find offensive!"

Okay. Let me explain that opinion more clearly. Celeste is being a fluffbunny attention whore with this thread. I'm not saying that's ALWAYS the case, but it is here. And I'm not afraid of offending nearby Wiccans who are determined to be victims no matter what anyone does anyway. This response to my statement is so... typical. I am not here to oppress you, and just because I think people who do things like post threads of this kind give Wiccans a bad name doesn't mean I hate Wicca.

Let me qualifiy that last statement, because it could start a flamewar all on its own. I will do that in a couple of ways. First, I will tell you how people like Celeste (and often reinforced by people like Wolfbelly) give Wicca a bad reputation. Then I'll tell you why I care.

First. What some people do. Many people confuse pride in their faith with a desire to make sure that no one can go a day without capitulating to that fact. These people, when someone around them calls them on their quest for attention, will often switch to a defensive stance in which they are the helpless and undeserving victim of the religious intolerance around them. This becomes even more fun when reinforcements arrive to save the poor misunderstood Wiccan from the crushing monolith of [insert oppressive philosophy/religion here]'s unthinking hatred. It's one of the most common ways in which that victim mindset is perpetuated.

So. Let's review. Why are many people afraid to address the problem of Wicca's public image? Because, believe it or not, people don't appreciate the knee-jerk response that accuses critics of being ignorant, intolerant, narrow-minded, etc. Yes, I posted a link to WWS. But I'll eat something unsightly if anyone even read beyond the title to the site. If you guys want to disprove what I'm saying, stop acting like stereotypes and start thinking about the implications of your actions. Whether you like it or not, what you do reflects on the people who identify themselves as Wiccans. Right now that reflection isn't good. Rather than reinvent the wheel, I'll refer back to WWS for a more vivid and entertaining portrayal of stereotypical Wiccans. Much, but not all, of that description applies to the discussion at hand. I don't regret posting it because I'm sick of Wicca's reputation and I'm sick of people who won't do anything to change that reputation.

To my second and final point. Why Kai gives a damn. Surely it's because Kai wants to see the end of your wicked pagan ways, right? Wrong. Kai is pagan, and the reason she's criticizing you is because she's sick of being lumped in with you. Remember what I said earlier about your actions reflecting on others? Maybe you should think about what kind of spokesman you're being for a religious following that, historically, has had a hard time with bad PR in the first place.

To repeat. You're calling a pagan religiously intolerant of other pagans. Forgive my inflammatory tone here, but the very idea is asinine. You think I haven't encountered intolerance? I have. Half of it has been from people who were just scared and ignorant. The other half has been from people who assume that I'm the same as the vocal minority attempting to represent me. The same as the fluffbunnies. The same as you.

So. Go back and read your attacks on me in light of the fact that we have similar beliefs. Call me an arrogant elitist bitch, but don't call me intolerant. I'm not attacking your religion. I'm criticizing your public representation of that religion. Get it straight. <p>-------------------------
"It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But the half-wit remains a half-wit and the emperor remains an emperor." -- Sandman "The Kindly Ones" </p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=kai@rpgww60462>Kai</A]&nbsp; Image at: 8/31/05 11:23

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Besyanteo
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Re: <flamewar>

Unread postby Besyanteo » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:10 pm

Lolz drama.

There'd be supplementary content here, but Priam already got the part about hunting down any little person who might assist in putting the cat up in someone's house for a while. I would put extra emphasis on that part about people who want you to pay a fee: It's bothersome to pay someone to watch your pet/familiar/etc. for a bit, but it's definitely better than getting rid of it.

... as an aside, even it Petco's offering, which I don't know that they are, don't go to them. I hear horrible, horrible things about how they treat our fine furred/scaled/feathered/etc'ed friends.

... Hey, I did have content after all! ... a little. Little little.

Seriously though: People, back up off of Celeste, Kai, and whoever else, as I skipped down once Lloyd started to really get going. Throwing jabs either way helps no one. >:


Celeste of Elvenhame
 

Re: <flamewar>

Unread postby Celeste of Elvenhame » Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:48 pm

Actuallly I dont care about paying a fee if I can find a place I can afford. If anyone has some suggestions on such places I'd be happy to hear them. <p>-----Celeste of Elvenhame--------

</p>

Celeste of Elvenhame
 

Re: <flamewar>

Unread postby Celeste of Elvenhame » Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:18 pm

Nev, also Apology accepted, I tend to be used to these sort of things, even if I don't like them. As for my spelling of familar. For some reason I just decided to not spell correctly that day.....maybe it was the drugs. My systems is still clearing all the crap I had to take while I had that strep.

<p>-----Celeste of Elvenhame--------

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Wolfbelly
 

Re: <flamewar>

Unread postby Wolfbelly » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:04 am

Hi Kai. You're not going to like this, but I'm going to paint a very clear picture to you and everyone reading this "flamewar" as to why you're being a small minded dick or, as per your request, an arrogant elitist bitch.

Before I begin, however, I'll point out one example of how you're completely manufacturing this entire fiasco. You're ranting and raving against us because of our "Attacks" on you, while saying "Let me qualifiy that last statement, because it could start a flamewar all on its own." Oh, how utterly kind of you to try to prevent this from becoming a flame war. I'm terribly sorry that we're all attacking you. You make it so clear that you don't want this to become a frenzied firefight, and yet the subject of your post is "<flamewar>." Why do I bring this up? Quite simple really, it fully illustrates my next point.

YOU are the one being the attention whore here. You claim that you're being attacked. You claim that you're being called religiously intolerant. You claim that Celeste is being a fluffbunny attention whore with this thread. All of these claims are completely manufactured. You're being attacked? Wait, weren't YOU the one that openly incited Celeste to insult you by baiting her into calling you small minded? You're being called religiously intolerant? Wait, weren't YOU the one that initially brought religion into this thread? Celeste is attention-whoring? Wait, wasn't she just posting about her cat?

First off, fucking own up to being a bitch already. As I explained earlier, the response that Celeste gave you was completely justified. Your post linked to a website that states "Why Wiccans Suck" and goes on to list reasons. Then, cutting the chaff, you explain that the whole "announcing your religious affiliation thing isn't working for me." Well that's nice, except she didn't mention her fucking religious affiliation. You stapled it to her face and then insulted her with the link. Hello! BEGGING for a flame response.

As for the link itself, start eating something unsightly. The website does refrain from being utterly "Rawr! Wiccans dumb!" and instead points out how people attention whore themselves. Why, then, did you just post the link, and not copy and paste the text that applied? If you were going to ctrl+c and then ctrl+v, then you may as well use what's relevant, right? Oh, wait ... you DID use what's relevant. You wanted to piss Celeste off. Don't even TRY to claim that you were just linking to the source and that's it. If I were to link to www.godhatesfags.com because there's a very lucid and structured argument against homosexuality, and then explain in a few sentences how homosexuality is wrong, I am GOING to get flamed.

We're attacking you? Bullshit. She's retaliating, I'm calling a duck a duck.

Second, when did anyone here other than you (and Archmage, whose post was joyously rambling and polite) mention religion? When did anyone here other than you point you out for being religiously intolerant? Go back, read through the posts. Surprise surprise, no one! Now, combine that with the fact that your most recent post is completely laden with how being a Wiccan is so hard, because there's so much religious intolerance and blah-de-blah-blah. Nice way to evoke pity for yourself. Falsely claim you're being attacked, and then create a well thought out rebuttal that everyone will agree with against that falsely claimed attack. Truly, you created an excellent opportunity for people to view your posts and go "Wow, poor Wiccan." And you say Celeste is attention whoring? Please ...

Third, you claim that Celeste is being a fluffbunny attention whore with this thread. Hell, you don't claim it, you assert it ... boldly ... with underlines!!! You, of all people, should know how deep a connection one has with her familiar. You, of all people, should understand the dilemma that Celeste is facing. You, of all people, should realize that when she said "familiar" she meant "cat that I am extremely attached to emotionally, spiritually and socially." And being an above average reader, you should be able to understand that the subject of Celeste's post was about the dilemma of seperating from this most valued of pets, and wasn't specifically about her familiar. But what happened? You chose to interpret it as her veritably name-dropping tidbits to her religious affiliation.

So, not only did you ignore the point of her original post, you applied a stereotype to her that wasn't completely justified. And, after stapling this stereotype to her forehead, manufactured this entire situation by baiting her, and then crying foul when she responded to your bait. WTF? Could you be more of a bitch?

But let's summarize here. We have you introducing a subject that you then exploded into grand proportions, and then cried foul when people called you what you are, and then you implied that you don't want to start a flamewar while, as we can see by the subject line, instituting a full-scale flame war. Oh, AND to top it all off, you're playing the victim throughout because "we're all attacking you" and "we're ruining the religion that you're affiliated with that wasn't even in this thread until you brought it up."

Two words, girl.

ATTENTION! WHORE!

Oh, and to quote you because it's so appropriate right now ... "Pot? This is kettle. You're black."

<span style="font-size:x-small;">Edit: I feel that I should mention a few things before you respond.
Am I attacking you? Yes.
Why am I attacking you? Because you're personally acting out one of my pet peeves. Playing the victim whilst creating your victimizing scenario.
Do you have a right to be offended? Yes.
Does that really serve a purpose? No.
Why didn't I hit Nevareh? He realized that he was being a jackass. He owned up to it. He's a good kid.
What's the best thing to do? Either publicly own up to things, or don't respond at all. That'll mean the same thing anyway.
Will I change my mind? Kind of hard to when I'm basing it on things in the past.
Would it be pointless to try and change my mind? Completely.
Will I participate in a flame war? Oh Hell yes!
</span> <p>Image</p>Edited by: Wolfbelly at: 9/1/05 2:38

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PriamNevhausten
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Re: <flamewar>

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:33 am

Man. That wasn't nearly as fun to read as I thought it might be. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

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Re: <flamewar>

Unread postby Besyanteo » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:52 am

Speaking of intentionally being inflammatory. ¬_¬

Also: This entire thread needs a heavy helping of
Image

Go home and stop being assholes. All of you.

<span style="color:red;font-size:medium;">YES. THAT MEANS YOU TOO.</span>


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Kai
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Re: <flamewar>

Unread postby Kai » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:18 pm

Damn, Wolfbelly.

I also expected that rebuttal to be more fun. More structured with a little more evidence and possibly a clear and lucid point. If the best you can do is an "I'm rubber you're glue" argument, I'm not going to play with you anymore.

Because debate is like tennis. You don't play with anyone who's manifestly inferior to you. Takes all the fun out of it, when you really think about it.

*waves goodbye to the thread and walks away to find intelligent conversation somewhere else* <p>-------------------------
"It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But the half-wit remains a half-wit and the emperor remains an emperor." -- Sandman "The Kindly Ones" </p>

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FF Fanatic 80
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Re: <flamewar>

Unread postby FF Fanatic 80 » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:37 pm

...So.

Could someone explain, how an off-hand comment about someone's pet cat being their familiar, turned into this huge mess?

For fuck's sake.


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Besyanteo
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Re: <flamewar>

Unread postby Besyanteo » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:50 pm

Dear Kai: His clear and lucid point is that you've acted like a self-righteous bitch, whilst trying to weasel out of blame for inflaming an otherwise fairly benign thread. He's not wrong in this. He just happened to exercise his own pet peeve as he made that point: intentionally inflaming an argument whilst having a small modicum of logical thought inside that inflammatory comment, so as to be able to claim he was in the right later.

Which makes you both suck, and that's sad.

This is not 4Chan, SA's FYAD, or any other such place. This is RPGWW: where, in theory, we're fairly reasonable and level headed about things that bother us. We shouldn't have a flamewar because someone called their cat a Familiar, or because Lloyd wants to see some internet drama.


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Re: <flamewar>

Unread postby FlamingDeth » Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:19 pm

I think there's something that everyone is missing here.

Which is to say, why the hell is that guy in Jason's picture using Internet Explorer on a Mac? <p>
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Re: Much Kitty Sadness

Unread postby FF Fanatic 80 » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:23 pm

Obviously more photoshop work =[


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Re: Much Kitty Sadness

Unread postby Zemyla » Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:19 pm

Because IE does exist on the Mac.

I know, because I've used it. <p>-----
Do not taunt Happy Fun Zemyla.

<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I think boobs are the lesser of two evils. - Inverse (Pervy)
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Ultimately, wizards and clerics don't say, "Gee, I want to become a lich because weapons hurt less and I don't have to worry about being backstabbed; that whole 'eternal life' thing is just a fringe benefit."-Darklion
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Re: Much Kitty Sadness

Unread postby SuperRube » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:00 pm

Wow, Kai, that was like... the worst post ever.


And here I was hoping this would be another super mondo flame war of awesome. Color me dissiponted. <p>
"Dreamcast's hardware was entirely 64-bit except for a single 128-bit internal math coprocessor. That little chunk of silicon didn't make DC a 128-bit system any more than my grandmother's artificial knee makes her a cybernetic super-soldier." --Jeremy Parish</p>

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Re: Much Kitty Sadness

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:12 pm

I think it's probably not so much that she 'offhandedly' mentioned her cat as a familiar, but that she called this cat a familiar more than she called him a cat. I have to say, that was a bit along the lines of "Hey, look at me, I have an alternate belief system!!" If you'll read back through the thread, you will see that, in fact, Celeste did throw the first punch, although I will admit that Kai was a little less than kind--also to be fair, it was the same thing that Lloyd was bitching about&#058; a pet peeve (pun not intended).

I can't say I'm surprised at this turn of events. It is Celeste's nature to dig for attention, RPGWW's nature to poke at people who trivialize a subject as serious as religion, again Celeste's nature to become unnecessarily hostile, and Lloyd's nature to go to excess. The rest of us can merely watch, and ask for our neighbor to pass the popcorn. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

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