Newcomers to the stage of history

[BrainWalker]

So I don't know how many of you guys really care about fighting games, but some crazy news broke today about Soul Calibur IV. I'm not even sure how to build up to something like this, so I'll just get right to the news.

I figure, even if you don't really care about the calibur of various souls, this is still bizarre enough to make good conversation.

[Capntastic]

I hear that the PS3 gets Vader, the 360 gets Yoda, and the Wii gets Jar-Jar.

[Taiar]

The only positive thing, even if it isn't real, I can glean from that whole statement is the oppurtunity to beat up Jar Jar in any shape or form.

[Molokidan]

I have to agree with Taiar on this one. The whole thing is just so bizarre.

[Jak Snide]

News is truth. Just in case the screenshots weren't enough.

I am a sad, sad 360 owner. I wanted the Dark Lord of the Sith, not some demented green midget. :[

[FF Fanatic 80]

*brain explodes* x_x

[PriamNevhausten]

The best thing about this is that no tournament will allow them, since they are console-specific. And so, many people will not play them at all.

This is good. Because the idea is pretty stupid.

[WillBaseton]

The best thing about this is that no tournament will allow them, since they are console-specific. And so, many people will not play them at all.

This is good. Because the idea is pretty stupid.

I dunno, dude, it makes slightly more sense than Spawn did. Slightly. I think it could be cool, even though Yoda's going to be game-breakingly unbalanced.

Thankfully I'm getting the PS3 version, so I don't have to worry about him. Whee.

[D]

Eh, they had better choices.


He-Man and Skeletor, or, hell, even the One Piece crew (turned properly realistic) would've been better IMO.

[KingOfDoma]

I'd be more convinced if energy-based weapons (*coughyunseongcough*) weren't already pre-established.

Besides... hello? Darth Vader in a fighting game that's not Masters of Teräs Käsi? Can you say Yay?

[Taiar]

As much as I would have loved to see the One Piece crew, that might have been even more random since most of them don't use any weapons. Zoro with three swords would be a treat though.

People mentioned the same thing with Heihachi when he was announced, I believe.

[WillBaseton]

I think the thing we're missing here is that this is clearly an attempt to reach out to American audiences and bring them into the Soul Calibur fold. Anime characters (and really, '80s has-beens) wouldn't do that. The fact that these characters are in it means that the game can be hyped even more effectively than normal to US audiences who might otherwise overlook it.

Of course, to a lot of "hardcore" fighting fans, that's a bad thing. But they're the same people who think Wavedashing is a good strategy, so fuck 'em. We'll just have to see how they play in-game, I think.

The only real downside, I think, is the fact that thanks to their inclusion, every Create-A-Soul and their mother in the online play portion of the game is going to use a lightsaber, which will get old VERY fast.

[Capntastic]

The thing I said previously was a joke, shame on you for believing me.

[glu-glu]

I want to know how are they going to top this when Soul calibur V hits the shelves...or VI, since I and III didn't have any WTF character.

[BrainWalker]

I've actually grown more fond of this news since I first heard it, because anywhere else on the internet I've seen people talking about this, the (slight) majority of them are angry about it, and of those people, not a single motherfucking one of them has made alternative character suggestions that weren't completely fucking retarded. Like, InuYasha or Kenshin or Master Chief. You'd think it wouldn't be difficult to come up with more appropriate character suggestions than icons of American sci-fi cinema, but apparently it is.

Things that make stupid people on the internet angry make me happy.

[Jak Snide]

I really didn't get the negative reactions to this. I mean, who doesn't like Star Wars to some degree? They're hardly canon characters, either. Link/Spawn/Etc didn't get a mention in SC3, they were just cool/not so cool extras in SC2. And as Will said, they could have done alot worse than these two.

Though the Dread Pirate Roberts would have been awesome.

[KingOfDoma]

As long as Necrid stays out of things, I'm happy.

[WillBaseton]

As said before, I do think it's kinda silly, but I'll probably enjoy playing as Vader for a bit before moving back to my typical Siegfried/Hwang setup.

It's too bad Dante's missed his second game in a row, though, as apparently he was supposed to be in SC3, but was cut out at the last second due to the game being rushed. DANTE would be a great fit in SC, even if you'd have to balance his guns out somehow (or just make him not HAVE them, I suppose).

[Jak Snide]

Link had a bow and goddamn bombs and he was fine. If Dante made it into an SC game he'd best spout all the random crap he does in his own games.

Also, a thought: What widely recognised western characters would fit into the game better than Vader and Yoda, if any? Immediate thoughts go to the LotR characters, but they're nowhere near as exciting as the force wielders are.

[NamagomiMk0]

Of course, to a lot of "hardkøre" fighting fans, that's a bad thing. But they're the same people who think Wavedashing is a good strategy, so fuck 'em. We'll just have to see how they play in-game, I think.

But if Wavedashing works, it IS a good strategy.


Also, the problem with Dante in SC isn't guns. Cervantes has goddamned guns. The problem would be what I feel is his more defining trait, Devil Trigger.

Also, I would refuse to play if they threw LotR characters in there.

[Jak Snide]

Can someone explain what the deal with wavedashing is? I know it's a SSBM thing, but I don't get why there's DRAMA about it.

Edit:

Also, the problem with Dante in SC isn't guns. Cervantes has goddamned guns. The problem would be what I feel is his more defining trait, Devil Trigger.

He transforms for the duration of an unblockable attack. Simple.

[FF Fanatic 80]

USE THE GODDAMN INTERNET, WENCH >=(

[Jak Snide]

I did one better, I youtubed a tutorial. So I know what it is and how it's done. I just want to know why there's a SHITSTORM over it. Because I see alot of arguing over it but never any actual reasons to explain the rage.

[FF Fanatic 80]

Because people like to raise a stink over things? =(

But seriously, the jist of what I've seen/read seems to be that a lot of folks view it as exploiting a bug in the game's physics. Basically, it's getting around situations where your character should normally pause or hesitate, and isntead you're moving around quickly out of nowhere. (assuming you don't know the move)

[KingOfDoma]

Parrying's covered by saying weapons held by the SCers naturally become vibroblades. Limbs not falling off, well... as I mentioned, Yun-seong has an energy sword and it doesn't hack those guys to pieces. And for that matter, NO ONE'S weapons seem to actually penetrate flesh. That would mean that our old friend physics is utterly useless, right? Friggin' fanboys... if they nitpick, they should nitpick all the way to the end or shut up.

[PriamNevhausten]

Clearly, fighters are not made for simulationist players. They are made for gamist players, those who are into the competition, into the system, into the conflict. Considering why heads do not literally roll when a high horizontal slice comes out is missing the point of playing any fighter beyond the Bushido Blade series.

Which means characters are there for their weapon styles. And let's face facts: The most interesting aspects of Vader and Yoda are not their fighting styles. They're Jedi, and Jedi are *gods* in Star Wars. If you take away their (effectively) superpowers, then you take away what makes Yoda and Vader, well, Yoda and Vader.

Kratos (God of War, not Wild ARMS or whatever the other Kratos is from) would be a better fit. Rygar would be a better fit. Whatever, saying "this and that would be better" is meaningless because it fails to consider the politics behind such a thing. Link was fine because it was on a Nintendo console, and licensing Link's use was hardly any more difficult than licensing the game for the Cube anyway. Spawn was easy enough because they already had MacFarlane on board for other character designs. Heihachi is a Namco property anyway, and so there was no issue with that (and, for the record, Heihachi really fit well into SC2, I think). Going beyond those sorts of bounds is pointless.

So we have Yoda and Vader on for a big fighting game for who knows what reason; I figure either Lucas thinks his franchise is dying (unlikely) or Namco tried really, really hard to get the two into the game for whatever reason. Lightning does not strike twice.

Yoda and Vader with that which makes them unique pulled violently away from them under the auspice of balance, in a setting that makes no sense for them story-wise; merely vessels for their less-paid-attention-to fighting arts. They are but names and voices, now--they may as well list the guest characters as James Earl Jones and Frank Oz.

And THAT is what bothers me about it. Not that Yoda and Vader are in the game, but the fact that they are NOT in the game.

[WillBaseton]

Priam:

You may want to watch the trailer they used to introduce the two. It pretty clearly shows Yoda using the Force to stop an axe swing from Astaroth. They wouldn't show that if they weren't working it into the game somehow. I'd hazard a guess and say Force powers are in, though.

[PriamNevhausten]

There is a very, very large difference between stopping a mace midswing and picking up a tons-heavy starship or piece of architecture. An alternate 'block' mechanism is not the same as actually using the Force like he clearly knows how.

[NamagomiMk0]

Sidenote: Other-Kratos is from Tales of Symphonia (Incidentally, a Namco property as well).

[Capntastic]

NAMCO VS. CAPCOM VS. SAMMY VS. DC

[Jak Snide]

Man, do you remember the Capcom vs Fucking Everything thread a few years back? Yeah, that was awesome.

[Capntastic]

I don't remember a thread but I remember the comic it was from.

[KingOfDoma]

I have to note that Jedi, while powerful, aren't guaranteed victory against Force-insensitive foes (see Grievous for an example). Also remember that SC characters, while not possessed with telekinesis, aren't slouches in combat, even compared to Jedi. What they might lack in stuff-shoving ability, they can make up in agility, toughness and tactics. I know, I know, it seems like weak argument, but what I'm trying to communicate is that there's TONS of room to balance things.

... though those two are going to be ringout whores, and you know it.

[glu-glu]

As long as Necrid stays out of things, I'm happy.

Am i the only one who thinks Necrid was charade done right?

[D]

As long as Necrid stays out of things, I'm happy.

Am i the only one who thinks Necrid was charade done right?

Yes.

[Jak Snide]

Priam might agree with Glu. Or he may have just enjoyed sending people into fits of rage by using him. Actually, scratch that. I still remember the look of glee on his face whenever he connected with that ranged unblockable.

[BrainWalker]

Mechanically, Necrid was actually pretty cool (with a couple exceptions), even if he was incredibly goofy. Like there's never been goofy stuff in fighting games before. Stylistically, though, Necrid was absolute garbage. No, that does a disservice to garbage. Necrid's design is like, what garbage would consider to be its own refuse.

Of course, that's just my opinion. Which I seem to share with some people.