Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

RP-related discussion otherwise not covered in the Character Closet.
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helvorn
 
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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby helvorn » Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:31 pm

It all comes down to how much Chris will toy with us before unleashing the horrors of the Warp...

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby Capntastic » Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:45 pm

My apologies for being so late in posting this, but I'm going to have to bow out; it's just not holding my interest I'm afraid.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby helvorn » Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:28 pm

Sorry to hear that. Good luck!

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby helvorn » Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:43 pm

Do we want to try to round up a few new players? I have a couple of guys I could ask.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby ChristianC » Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:38 pm

Okay, yeah, I guess I owe you guys an explanation.

It's not your GMing Chris, it's just the pacing of the game. I think this would've been an excellent chat-based game, but right now it's just... I dunno, I feel absolutely no creativity to respond to anything, and it just feels like every stop we make has a solution we need to get to before we can continue the game. I can stick around for a while more, seeing as I'm on the board and everything, since I don't want to ruin stuff, and we'll see if I can stick around in the game.

Basically, I'm kind of regretting dropping the bomb without discussing it, so I hope it's okay if I stick around for a while longer until I can make up my mind.
"That's not interactive, there's no back-and-forth with the other player and how much fun is it to watch someone incredibly good at moving their eyes? And then whichever Seeker gets lucky swoops in and grabs the Snitch and makes everyone else's work moot. It's like someone took a real game and grafted on this pointless extra position just so that you could be the Most Important Player without needing to really get involved or learn the rest of it. Who was the first Seeker, the King's idiot son who wanted to play Quidditch but couldn't understand the rules?" Actually, now that Harry thought about it, that seemed like a surprisingly good hypothesis. Put him on a broomstick and tell him to catch the shiny thing...

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby Jak Snide » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Christian is right, pacing is a problem in forum games. An exposition sequence might take an hour or two face to face or via chat. On a board it can take weeks or months and can leave players feeling like they're on rails for long periods of time.

It's something I'm still struggling with myself, but there's a balance to be found with waiting for the players to act and moving things on. A conversation between an NPC and the group can be handled in a single post; players each specify how they want to approach the conversation (line of inquiry, attitude, etc) and the GM types up the knowledge gained. It's something I do in my chat game as well, where talking through every single negotiation with a shipwright or merchant guild would bog the game down. Sometimes the details need to be cast aside to keep the game moving at a good speed.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby helvorn » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:09 pm

Some of the advantage to a board or PbEM game is that you can respond at your own pace. But it does tend to drag minutes of encounter out into weeks at the very least. I think if we can all post at least every other day it would speed things up. Of course real life things take precedence and if the GM can be informed they can even NPC the character a bit to keep things moving.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:56 pm

In retrospect I spent far to much time in the brifing(s) period -- I should have just given you a rundown on the mission and set you down on Famine. Oh well onward. I hope we can keep Chani with us!

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:50 pm

I'm glad Chani decided to stay with us -- I told you things were going to get interesting! :mrgreen:

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby helvorn » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:31 pm

Kara is glad that Chani stayed with us also... :)

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby helvorn » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:51 am

Kara will take Resist Possession for her 100 XP spend.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:52 am

helvorn wrote:Kara will take Resist Possession for her 100 XP spend.


Am adding to character sheet.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby helvorn » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:59 pm

A friend of mine is interested in the game. I'll have him get in contact with Chris.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:27 am

Thanks. He looks good. If we could get one more character to make up for one of the other glaring deficiencies in the group, that would be perfect, but I think if need be we can use just your friend's guy.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby helvorn » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:59 pm

It'd be nice to have a bona fide tech priest but that's a hard character to play.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:30 pm

helvorn wrote:It'd be nice to have a bona fide tech priest but that's a hard character to play.


Especially in this adventure. In principle a Tech-Priest is possible but he would be spending a lot of time away from the rest of the party, since his undercover abilities are limited.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby helvorn » Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:42 pm

I'd think some one with the tech use skill might be able to do a lot in regards to machine spirits and such. That sounds like a quite broad skill. And the common lore and scholastic lore for the ad mech might help. A lot of that can be had under other careers.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:50 am

helvorn wrote:I'd think some one with the tech use skill might be able to do a lot in regards to machine spirits and such.


He's also the only guy who can recharge a lasgun, get information out of a cogitator, or do anything with machines that are at all out of the ordinary (like fix them). Or see why servitors are acting strangely for instance. :) Some of this overlaps with Technomat and Common Lore (Tech).

This is the Imperium, where machines are magic to most people.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby helvorn » Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:39 pm

Well, Kara won't be learning any tech skills any time soon given her background...

I would think that skill with las weapons would allow one to know how to recharge them. Since they are designed to be used by pretty much everyone I would think the rituals would be simple and robust enough for common use. I picture something like a charger for the batteries on cordless devices; 'plug the magazine into this slot, wait until the light turns green and then pull the magazine out and use it'. Oh and LOTS of mumbled prayers of course...

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:30 pm

helvorn wrote:Well, Kara won't be learning any tech skills any time soon given her background...

I would think that skill with las weapons would allow one to know how to recharge them. Since they are designed to be used by pretty much everyone I would think the rituals would be simple and robust enough for common use. I picture something like a charger for the batteries on cordless devices; 'plug the magazine into this slot, wait until the light turns green and then pull the magazine out and use it'. Oh and LOTS of mumbled prayers of course...


Technically according to the book it requires a Tech Use roll to recharge a las charge pack. However, I think this refers to things like plugging them into a city electricity grid. In the field I assume there would be special feeds specifically built into APCs for the Guard and PDF.

Lasweapons seem to be mainly military hardware, at least in the Calixis Sector.

I think your friend's Reclaimator will do well enough.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby helvorn » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:19 am

I could see there being specialized plug ins for Guard or PDF units to charge las magazines that might not require a tech use skill to manage. I could also see a service charging money to recharge packs for those that don't want to throw them in a fire.

Somehow I have this picture of Kara trying to hook up her las pistol magazines to some kind of huge electrical equipment out of a Frankenstein movie.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby ChristianC » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:45 am

I think it's a bit of shoehorning to fully follow the dogmatic view on tech that you find in the Warhammer fluff, and I think the DH sourcebooks do try to stray a bit from it. Even more so in RT. Not to mention a lot of the novels, like Ciaphas Cain for example, who doesn't at all seem worried about the machine spirit getting a hissy-fit about sometihng.

Frankly, it's just incredibly difficult to play as oblivious to ALL the workings of a machine. :science:

(I did wanna play a techpriests, but someone didn't allow me. :zoidberg: )
"That's not interactive, there's no back-and-forth with the other player and how much fun is it to watch someone incredibly good at moving their eyes? And then whichever Seeker gets lucky swoops in and grabs the Snitch and makes everyone else's work moot. It's like someone took a real game and grafted on this pointless extra position just so that you could be the Most Important Player without needing to really get involved or learn the rest of it. Who was the first Seeker, the King's idiot son who wanted to play Quidditch but couldn't understand the rules?" Actually, now that Harry thought about it, that seemed like a surprisingly good hypothesis. Put him on a broomstick and tell him to catch the shiny thing...

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:28 am

ChristianC wrote:I think it's a bit of shoehorning to fully follow the dogmatic view on tech that you find in the Warhammer fluff, and I think the DH sourcebooks do try to stray a bit from it. Even more so in RT. Not to mention a lot of the novels, like Ciaphas Cain for example, who doesn't at all seem worried about the machine spirit getting a hissy-fit about sometihng.

Frankly, it's just incredibly difficult to play as oblivious to ALL the workings of a machine. :science:

(I did wanna play a techpriests, but someone didn't allow me. :zoidberg: )


Well playing as a techpriest really wouldn't be that fun for the player in this scenario. :kettle:

I think it depends on the level of technology and one's view of the Imperium. On a planet like Famine where the tech level is generally low (around early 20th-century) and there is not much Mechanicus presence, obviously most people are going to know how to fix lightbulbs and refuel cars. Otherwise, how would a farmer run a tractor? That doesn't mean that they discount the role of the machine spirits though, any more than a religious physicist discounts the workings of God in the universe.

Also, Sandy Mitchell's and Abnett's vision of the Imperium is a lot less grimdark than that of the people who wrote the Dark Heresy material. Cain is basically military comedy and Eisenhorn is pulp action, psykers don't get their heads blown off by perils of the warp and nobody seems to acquire a lot of insanity or corruption points. DH on the other hand is more action-horror.

EDIT: Anyway, for me the knowledge that machine spirits don't really exist is part of Forbidden Lore (Adeptus Mechanicus).

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby Jak Snide » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:15 pm

ChristianC wrote:I think it's a bit of shoehorning to fully follow the dogmatic view on tech that you find in the Warhammer fluff, and I think the DH sourcebooks do try to stray a bit from it. Even more so in RT. Not to mention a lot of the novels, like Ciaphas Cain for example, who doesn't at all seem worried about the machine spirit getting a hissy-fit about sometihng


Depends on what level you're operating at, so to speak. Not everyone's going to be ultra-pious and respectful to machine spirits, but your average rank 1 DH mook is going to know very, very little about how stuff actually works unless you're a hiver, in which case you've got a bit of working knowledge. Then you step up to Rogue Trader, where the players are the most important people on a starship. Even those without Tech-Use understand how their ship functions at a reasonable level. It's assumed that everyone knows how to direct and fire the macrocannons, for example, and that anyone who can make a Scrutiny test can handle the auspex array. Of course at that point the machine spirit is a very, very real thing. Your ship isn't quite alive but there's something to it that makes it more than bulkheads and energy conduits, something that can hunger for a kill or scan planets of its own volition.

InquisitorChris wrote:Also, Sandy Mitchell's and Abnett's vision of the Imperium is a lot less grimdark than that of the people who wrote the Dark Heresy material. Cain is basically military comedy and Eisenhorn is pulp action, psykers don't get their heads blown off by perils of the warp and nobody seems to acquire a lot of insanity or corruption points. DH on the other hand is more action-horror.


Abnett's early books mangle the fluff pretty badly. Enjoy the stories and try to ignore the inner neckbeard grumbling about a general absence of religion and teeny-tiny warp capable starships. I think for many people in the Imperium machine spirits don't really factor into their thoughts until something goes wrong. Then they have something to grumble at/try to appease until a tech-priest shows up and lobotomises them for their transgressions.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:22 pm

Yeah the absence of religion in Abnett is almost weird.

I have a different, practical issue. I have two new characters coming into the game who, you being stuck in the catacombs and all, will be unable to join the main group for some time. So rather than have them sit around I'm going to run their preliminary bit of the adventure in parallel with yours.

Is it possible on this site to open a second Purge the Xenos thread for them, or should I just do it by personal email?

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby ChristianC » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:07 pm

Indeed, I agree that people who actually have to use machines on a daily basis know how they work beyond simply praying to them. Of course they still pray! It's just, they also know that the machine spirit requires some holy oil to stop squeaking, not merely the incantation of placating the torn veil of the second cog-nitor.
"That's not interactive, there's no back-and-forth with the other player and how much fun is it to watch someone incredibly good at moving their eyes? And then whichever Seeker gets lucky swoops in and grabs the Snitch and makes everyone else's work moot. It's like someone took a real game and grafted on this pointless extra position just so that you could be the Most Important Player without needing to really get involved or learn the rest of it. Who was the first Seeker, the King's idiot son who wanted to play Quidditch but couldn't understand the rules?" Actually, now that Harry thought about it, that seemed like a surprisingly good hypothesis. Put him on a broomstick and tell him to catch the shiny thing...

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby Jak Snide » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:27 am

InquisitorChris wrote:Is it possible on this site to open a second Purge the Xenos thread for them, or should I just do it by personal email?


Make a second thread, stick Purge the Xenos or similar in the title for reference purposes and use it whenever you need to have a 2nd scene. We've got a very large Planescape game going at the moment which regularly gets split into two main groups during excursions and thus two threads exist ("The Planewalkers' Journies" and "The Planewalkers' Other Journies").

ChristianC wrote:Indeed, I agree that people who actually have to use machines on a daily basis know how they work beyond simply praying to them. Of course they still pray! It's just, they also know that the machine spirit requires some holy oil to stop squeaking, not merely the incantation of placating the torn veil of the second cog-nitor.


Exactly. By the time you get up to Magi of the Adeptus Mechanicus you've got people who fully understand the majority of technology they interact with (with exceptions being stuff like the finer points of warp drive technology and so on) but still revere it out of respect to the machines and the omnissiah. Or do so for the more impressive stuff which arguably does have a tangible machine spirit. Or don't at all, in the case of the more irreverent ones, save for paying lip service so their more orthodox peers don't trump up charges against them.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:46 am

Thanks. When they're ready, I'll post their character sheets here in the beginning of this thread with the others and then open up an alternate game thread until the two groups can merge.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby helvorn » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:19 pm

Great conclusion to the combat scene with the sudden creepyness in the catacombs Chris. We've got lots to do but dealing with the injured is the first order of business. The question is does Kara risk the perils of the warp to try and heal Chani? :)

As for the attitude toward tech in the 40K fluff it certainly is far more religious than our view of things but a good portion of the populace nowadays is just as ignorant about the workings of their tech as the people of the game. A good fraction of people have no idea how their smart phone, computer or car work. They can use them but it could just as easily be machine spirits making the stuff work as the miracle of 'electronics'. Now granted things like physics, biology and chemistry (all the technical disciplines) aren't commonly taught in grade schools, high schools and general colleges so the overall level of knowledge is lower.

I'd say at the higher levels of the Ad Mech where there is more understanding of the basis of the tech that one could venerate machines and tech just for the beauty of the complexity and underlying natural laws.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:54 pm

helvorn wrote:Great conclusion to the combat scene with the sudden creepyness in the catacombs Chris. We've got lots to do but dealing with the injured is the first order of business. The question is does Kara risk the perils of the warp to try and heal Chani? :)


This may be a problem when and if you get out of the catacombs and want to do something considering the time it takes to heal from being Heavily Wounded.

Thanks for the creepy comment. I try. :cthulhu:

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby helvorn » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:51 pm

I need to review the healing and wounding rules. I read them through once but I do remember that being heavily wounded sucks.

Matt

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:56 pm

helvorn wrote:I need to review the healing and wounding rules. I read them through once but I do remember that being heavily wounded sucks.

Matt


Just like real life!

Chani needs some armor. Just a quilted vest would have helped her out quite a bit.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby helvorn » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:13 pm

If I remove enough damage to take her down to to her equal to or less than her toughness bonus in damage then she would be lightly wounded. Is that correct? Ideally I could heal her back to normal with the Healer power and bypass the entire long recover period as I understand it. Of course there are problems with overusing the power and issues with Perils of the Warp as always...

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:16 pm

helvorn wrote:If I remove enough damage to take her down to to her equal to or less than her toughness bonus in damage then she would be lightly wounded. Is that correct? Ideally I could heal her back to normal with the Healer power and bypass the entire long recover period as I understand it. Of course there are problems with overusing the power and issues with Perils of the Warp as always...


That is correct.

BTW the really life-saving minor psychic power is the one that stops Blood Loss.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby helvorn » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:26 pm

InquisitorChris wrote:BTW the really life-saving minor psychic power is the one that stops Blood Loss.


Ahhh... but for another 100 XP and I would have Stop Blood Loss also. :)

Next topic...

Basic vs. Advanced Skills

As I understand it you can attempt a basic skill at half your applicable stat if you are unskilled while if you lack the advanced skill you are out of luck and can't try. Is that correct?

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:30 am

helvorn wrote:
Next topic...

Basic vs. Advanced Skills

As I understand it you can attempt a basic skill at half your applicable stat if you are unskilled while if you lack the advanced skill you are out of luck and can't try. Is that correct?


Indeed that is correct. Medicae is an Advanced Skill of course.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:27 am

Topic for the Day: CORRUPTION!

What do you guys think? Originally I was going to use the alternate corruption rules in the RH, but looking them over again, I'm not sure that's a good idea. (Not that anybody in the group is anywhere near having enough CPs for this to matter for the near future.)

First off, they're kind of boring.

Second and more importantly, these rules seem naturally enough designed for groups working for a Radical Inquisitor, expected (and almost encouraged) to acquire lots of corruption points by employing sorcery and suchlike. So, the effects are milder than in the system in the core book.

However, too many of the effects from crossing thresholds seem beneficial. In particular I'm thinking of the Fearless you get get at 61 CPs (assuming you pass the test). Why is this a concern? Because it makes you immune to Warp Shock, which is the main way of acquiring further corruption points!!!! In a Radical campaign, where characters are likely performing dark rituals and such (and getting CPs that way), this isn't that big of a deal. However, this is not a radical campaign. (Admittedly you're immune to Warp Shock once you acquire 80 Insanity Points too.)

(I'm not happy with the Unnatural Characteristics at 91 points either. Being infused with the Warp does not translate in my mind to "being stronger," but with "being a hideous freak in soul and likely body." Boons with Unnatural Characteristics are what Dark Pacts are for.)

What do you think?

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby ChristianC » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:23 am

I agree somewhat. The warp is fickle and is more likely to consume you to fuel the ambitions of someone far more powerful than yourself. If you're made of the right stuff, are relatively resistant to the mind-deadening effects of some of the Warp and you're also lucky, you may become a Champion of a daemon god or another, but that is so unlikely it's not even fun. Even the majority of Kee-Oss Mareehns probably won't ever be anything more than grunts and foot-soldiers with a few random mutations. What hope does an Acolyte have?

At least not until you reach the kind of Epic level where you've got something the Warp wants, whether it's an unnatural superiority in some skill or another, a strong soul or a pious dedication that the dark forces will delight in turning to fanatical devotion.
"That's not interactive, there's no back-and-forth with the other player and how much fun is it to watch someone incredibly good at moving their eyes? And then whichever Seeker gets lucky swoops in and grabs the Snitch and makes everyone else's work moot. It's like someone took a real game and grafted on this pointless extra position just so that you could be the Most Important Player without needing to really get involved or learn the rest of it. Who was the first Seeker, the King's idiot son who wanted to play Quidditch but couldn't understand the rules?" Actually, now that Harry thought about it, that seemed like a surprisingly good hypothesis. Put him on a broomstick and tell him to catch the shiny thing...

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:00 pm

I have posted one of the two new characters on the first page of this thread (replacing the place Huw's character sheet was). I just haven't posted the background in yet (the player wrote it longhand and sent the sheet as a pdf, so I haven't gotten around to transcribing it yet). I'm waiting for the final version of the other new character.

By the time these characters hook up with the main group, assuming you live, you should all have gotten (about) another 200 XP, so I gave the new characters half of the 300 XP you will have earned to buy advancements (400 + 150 = 550 XP) as a compromise between starting them off totally fresh and giving them 300 XP for free, which I don't think would be fair.

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Re: Dark Heresy -- Purge the Xenos

Unread postby InquisitorChris » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:04 pm

So, barring any persuasive counterarguments, I am going to use the core book corruption rules.

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