Okay. Theice thread, mark II

RP-related discussion otherwise not covered in the Character Closet.
User avatar
Kelne
EXTERMINATE!!!!
 
Posts: 3606
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:02 am
Location: New Zealand

Okay. Theice thread, mark II

Unread postby Kelne » Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:46 am

I think the thing to do here is to start over. Work out the questions that we'd like to see answered, see if any particular themes emerge, and so forth.

I figure I'll start the ball rolling on the questions front. A few questions I'd like to see answers to. I'll post my own thoughts after people have had a chance to chime in.

1) What is the basic theme of Theician culture? What was the culture like before the vampires took over, and what impact have they had on it?

2) What are the origins of the vampires? Igalan, or beyond? Were they explorers, or exiles looking for a place to hide? Or were they homegrown, taking control as their numbers grew?

3) What are the Vamps' abilities? Hypnotic gaze? Mist form? IMMUNITY? Likewise, what are their weaknesses? Are there groups who differ from the norm?

4) What is the political structure of the nation like? Do the living have a say in government? Are there any proscribed cults or the like?

5) Religion. What gods do the Theicians venerate, and why? While we're at it, what role does Lucio fill in the wider world?

6) What are the criteria for being inducted into the undead? Are any groups more likely to be inducted than others? Or is such induction a matter of the whim of a particular vamp? Who does the inducting?

7) How does Theice interact with the outside world? Do they have territorial ambitions, or do they just want to be left alone? Who have they clashed with in the past?

8) What form does the Theician military take? What tactics do they use, offensively or defensively?

9) What are the laws of Theice? Who enforces them and how? What are the penalties for various infractions, both amongst the living and the dead?

10) What role, if any, does the dracolich Igunza play in Theice? What is his agenda, and what bargain has he struck with the vamps? What are his origins?

11) What other creatures and/or races can be found across the Theician penninsula? Creatures of the night, perhaps? Do they play a role in Theice's defenses? Are there wild lands, or is it all civilised?

12) How do vamps from outside Theice regard the country, and how are they regarded in turn? Is Theice thought of as a spiritual homeland?

13) What are other nations' attitudes towards Theice? Are there formal embassies? Is Theice regarded as a mere legend in some places?

That ought to do for starters. If anyone wants to add questions, feel free. <p>Centuries of threats of "I'll turn you all to stone!" and "I'll knock you all down!" have caused Domans to develop an instinct to form small groups. For safety, I assure you. – Keir</p>

User avatar
Kai
Fighting the Iron Law of Oligarchy Since 2006
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:32 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Re: Okay. Theice thread, mark II

Unread postby Kai » Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:25 pm

I express my adoration for you and this thread, and will post at some point to toss in my $.02.

1)Probably a high value placed on family and ancestors judging by the fact that they keep around all those bodies. This may have become a utility thing eventually, what with providing easy storehouses for zombies, but I doubt they'd have started keeping all these things around just... out of the blue.

2)For this I'd have to make something up, and I don't quite feel qualified to do that.

3)Okay. I have to say it again because it drives me nuts. I can believe that they're unaging, that they don't need to eat (and further that they cannot do so) or drink, that they are immune to disease and shadow magic, that they can regenerate to a great degree, but the shapeshifting is a problem for me and here's my huge issue.

WHY CAN VAMPIRES IN GAERA HAVE BABIES? Why? If a vampire doesn't breathe or have a pulse, if a vampire doesn't even eat, how exactly do you impregnate one? How does a pregnant vampire nourish a child before or after birth? Was there any explanation for that ever? I realize we've already got half-vampires running around, but if I needed to think of a way to bullshit that, I'd say that Jazz got special treatment as a result of being Resh's favorite vampire or something.

4)I bet it's largely an oligarchy. I mean, when you live as long as a vampire can, why listen to something that's only been around for 20 years? I'm totally with you that the living in Theice would have some social value by virtue of their inventiveness and general liveliness (harr), but that doesn't necessarily mean the vampires would want to be governed by them.

5)Reshtaha might get a lot of love from the necromancers, and Lucio probably gets attention for being their divine patron. Example from another Gaeran culture: the mostly wood-elven Tuathans revere the elemental lords, viewing most other deities as foreign and basically irrelevant. Exceptions are made for Tunare because in a culture of Druids, the goddess of nature is still a friend and because if she created wood elves she's got to be pretty okay.

6)I'm sure artisans are more likely to be brought over, and this may be something that certain guilds will do for particularly talented members to keep them around. Beyond that, while it would certainly be interesting if individuals were forbidden from making the choice for themselves, it might be one of those rules like riding a bike in The Giver. It's technically not allowed, but people do it anyway.

7)They seem fairly isolationist to me, and this is probably because nobody's done anything with them OOC. Now, I can see them taking on territorial aspirations if their population starts getting too high and they have crowding issues. If we do what seems reasonable to me and say that they can't breed, their population would grow slowly, but it would grow. If there are living people there and breeding, with many of them never dying off, the space and resources available would begin to be strained.

8)For some reason I want them to have a militia, Switzerland-style. Everyone has some way to contribute, whether it's a government-issued weapon or magical training. Next question would be whether or not living people are in this militia. I'd say probably, as it could be an opportunity for advancement into the ranks of the vampires.

9)Laws... hrm. I can imagine them being a fairly conservative society, so crimes like treason and sedition would probably be a higher priority than murder or theft. Anything that would tend to shake up the established order would be a major problem.

If they're pragmatic enough to keep their ancestors around as a zombie reserve, I can bet they'll be just as pragmatic with people they need to punish. This may include anything from killing and re-animating the remains of criminals to creating incorporeal undead servants from people who commit major crimes. I mean, what better way to punish someone who's really committed a major infraction than to keep their ghost around and enslave it?

10)I don't know anything about that. Seriously. I got nothin'.

11)Probably every variety of intelligent undead imaginable would hang around, if only in the suburbs. I mean, if I were a nightwalker or a lich or anything, it would be important to go someplace where I'd be allowed to exist in peace without adventurers coming after me every week.

As far as wild lands, the Theicians don't actually have to feed most of their population, which means that any need for agriculture would be to support the living class. Depending on how many living people there are, the vampires would have less need for renewable resources like agricultural land and more need of urban housing for all those people who are born and never die.

12)Spiritual homeland, eh? Now that's an interesting idea. It's also possible that vampires out of Theice would view the nation as somewhat retreatist and backward, fearing the ever-changing political landscape of mortal-run nations.

13)It'd be funny if some nations refused to acknowledge them like the US did to Cuba, but most places would probably view Theice with some combination of suspicion and annoyance at the arrogance of a nation who believes their way is best because they've been doing it for hundreds of years. "No really we have. My brother Steve was there." <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=kai@rpgww60462>Kai</A]&nbsp; Image at: 11/18/06 17:31

User avatar
Kai
Fighting the Iron Law of Oligarchy Since 2006
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:32 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Re: Okay. Theice thread, mark II

Unread postby Kai » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:45 pm

Charles and I discussed vampire breeding.

First of all, Lucio's the one who does special nice things for Jazz, at least as far as changing her physiology. Resh has done other stuff, but those things aren't relevant here.

The average vampire who has has his/her blood drained and then replaced with the blood of a sire (whoever that is) cannot breed with a partner of the opposite sex unless they get a special blessing from Lucio. It's totally his prerogative to let a vampire do it, but his intervention is absolutely necessary.

I'm not saying the exception couldn't be made more than once. I am saying that vampires are not innately able to breed. It takes Lucio saying, "Hey, this one should have a baby if she wants," to make it possible.

If Lucio made an exception once, he's capable of doing so again. But not everyone can gain special divine favor, and it still ensures not only that 99.9999999% of vampires will never have kids, but that Jazz will likely remain the only one doing it.

In short, the rules of vampire physiology dictate that they don't breed because you can't impregnate or be impregnated by what amounts to a reanimated corpse. If Lucio himself gets involved, these rules no longer matter. He can make personal exceptions whenever he wants, as long as we admit that that is what has to happen.

Resulting half-vampires can breed. It's fair to say that say that if your family has had a divine miracle to create a half-vampire in the first place, you've gotten past the hard part. If you're already half-human, you can breed. <p>-------------------------
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I've always followed my father's advice: he told me, first to always keep my word and, second, to never insult anybody unintentionally. If I insult you, you can be goddamn sure I intend to. And, third, he told me not to go around looking for trouble. --John Wayne</span></p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=kai@rpgww60462>Kai</A]&nbsp; Image at: 11/18/06 20:51

User avatar
Kelne
EXTERMINATE!!!!
 
Posts: 3606
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:02 am
Location: New Zealand

Unread postby Kelne » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:41 pm

Progress has been made, though it's still in progress. Thought people might like to give some input. In particular, I'd like to see some interesting clan concepts put forward.

Edit: Figured I'd underline the link, since apparently it no longer works automatically.

User avatar
pd Rydia
Moderator
 
Posts: 5269
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:12 pm
Location: Temple of Fiends

Unread postby pd Rydia » Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:56 pm

<ul>:?: 1) What is the basic theme of Theician culture? What was the culture like before the vampires took over, and what impact have they had on it?<ul>:eng101: 1)Probably a high value placed on family and ancestors judging by the fact that they keep around all those bodies. This may have become a utility thing eventually, what with providing easy storehouses for zombies, but I doubt they'd have started keeping all these things around just... out of the blue.<ul>:gb: [1] Which could be what attracted necromancers/vampires in the first place. Natural resources and all.

About the bodies, well-preserved? Mummification? Usually involves taking out certain organs, which wouldn't matter so entirely much I imagine. There's magic, as well, but that'd be fairly impractical for the average denizen. People die a lot. Might have left an amount of upper crust, extra-well preserved bodies. Or ghosts, even.

I imagine, if body preservation is important, ground burials wouldn't be so common. Maybe something for the rich (or mass graves for the poor). Mausoleums would be the way to go, to best use space. At that, bugs and nasty stuff would get at the bodies in the ground, so mass graves for poor would make more sense, maybe?
</ul></ul>:?: 2) What are the origins of the vampires? Igalan, or beyond? Were they explorers, or exiles looking for a place to hide? Or were they homegrown, taking control as their numbers grew?<ul>:eng101: 2)For this I'd have to make something up, and I don't quite feel qualified to do that.<ul>:gb: [2] I note the existence of the wasteland south of Gre'par'th, north of Baron, northwest of the Kilian forest.
Lunk: http://mysidia.org/rpgww/The_Tundra_Wasteland
http://mysidia.org/rpgww/Image:Map_pdrydia_2igala6.png
As I recall, it was to be just an icy wasteland full of undead. Frankly, I kind of liked the idea. Not much was ever fleshed out for it (haha, no really), so it could be manipulated for Theician backstory purposes.
</ul></ul>:?: 3) What are the Vamps' abilities? Hypnotic gaze? Mist form? IMMUNITY? Likewise, what are their weaknesses? Are there groups who differ from the norm?<ul>:eng101: 3)Okay. I have to say it again because it drives me nuts. I can believe that they're unaging, that they don't need to eat (and further that they cannot do so) or drink, that they are immune to disease and shadow magic, that they can regenerate to a great degree, but the shapeshifting is a problem for me and here's my huge issue.

WHY CAN VAMPIRES IN GAERA HAVE BABIES? Why? If a vampire doesn't breathe or have a pulse, if a vampire doesn't even eat, how exactly do you impregnate one? How does a pregnant vampire nourish a child before or after birth? Was there any explanation for that ever? I realize we've already got half-vampires running around, but if I needed to think of a way to bullshit that, I'd say that Jazz got special treatment as a result of being Resh's favorite vampire or something.

//
Charles and I discussed vampire breeding.

First of all, Lucio's the one who does special nice things for Jazz, at least as far as changing her physiology. Resh has done other stuff, but those things aren't relevant here.

The average vampire who has has his/her blood drained and then replaced with the blood of a sire (whoever that is) cannot breed with a partner of the opposite sex unless they get a special blessing from Lucio. It's totally his prerogative to let a vampire do it, but his intervention is absolutely necessary.

I'm not saying the exception couldn't be made more than once. I am saying that vampires are not innately able to breed. It takes Lucio saying, "Hey, this one should have a baby if she wants," to make it possible.

If Lucio made an exception once, he's capable of doing so again. But not everyone can gain special divine favor, and it still ensures not only that 99.9999999% of vampires will never have kids, but that Jazz will likely remain the only one doing it.

In short, the rules of vampire physiology dictate that they don't breed because you can't impregnate or be impregnated by what amounts to a reanimated corpse. If Lucio himself gets involved, these rules no longer matter. He can make personal exceptions whenever he wants, as long as we admit that that is what has to happen.

Resulting half-vampires can breed. It's fair to say that say that if your family has had a divine miracle to create a half-vampire in the first place, you've gotten past the hard part. If you're already half-human, you can breed.<ul>:gb: [3] I think an allergy to the smell of garlic should run in some families. :]
WHAT RED, PUFFY EYES YOU HAVE!

Also, this presents room for suspicion of vampirism in completely regular folk (superstition-led ostracization, witch huntery)--have you ever tried cutting or mashing garlic? That's some strong stuff.
</ul></ul>:?: 4) What is the political structure of the nation like? Do the living have a say in government? Are there any proscribed cults or the like?<ul>:eng101: 4)I bet it's largely an oligarchy. I mean, when you live as long as a vampire can, why listen to something that's only been around for 20 years? I'm totally with you that the living in Theice would have some social value by virtue of their inventiveness and general liveliness (harr), but that doesn't necessarily mean the vampires would want to be governed by them.<ul>:gb: [4] The living might have a sort of House of Commons deal going on. A token so to speak--we care about you, really. Vamps on the whole may not care to listen to them, but there's also the dependence on blood thing. It'd also be a way to honor the folks without biting them--or for those who aren't good enough stock to turn undead.

There's also the question of what non-vampiric unliving stand in the country. They aren't vampires, so I can't imagine them being viewed as equal. On the other hand, they're not living, so they might be seen with special considerations--for better or for worse. If they're inherently better than the living, they're also more dangerous.

I can only see vampires as the ultimate ruling class. I mean, they're /better./
</ul></ul>:?: 5) Religion. What gods do the Theicians venerate, and why? While we're at it, what role does Lucio fill in the wider world?<ul>:eng101: 5)Reshtaha might get a lot of love from the necromancers, and Lucio probably gets attention for being their divine patron. Example from another Gaeran culture: the mostly wood-elven Tuathans revere the elemental lords, viewing most other deities as foreign and basically irrelevant. Exceptions are made for Tunare because in a culture of Druids, the goddess of nature is still a friend and because if she created wood elves she's got to be pretty okay.<ul>:gb: [5] Less commonly: some living might pay some service to water gods, if they're fishers; I imagine fishing would be a decent way to feed the living without overly 'wasting' land on farming and the like (and also for this, Theice may be interested in trade). Also, there might be some worship of Primaer as a creator god--who isn't commonly connected to holy magic, as Ishtar is.</ul></ul>:?: 6) What are the criteria for being inducted into the undead? Are any groups more likely to be inducted than others? Or is such induction a matter of the whim of a particular vamp? Who does the inducting?<ul>:eng101: 6)I'm sure artisans are more likely to be brought over, and this may be something that certain guilds will do for particularly talented members to keep them around. Beyond that, while it would certainly be interesting if individuals were forbidden from making the choice for themselves, it might be one of those rules like riding a bike in The Giver. It's technically not allowed, but people do it anyway.<ul>:gb: [6] Would a new clan be started if the old clan disapproved of a new inductee strongly enough? Kind of a, "you're on your own, kid" thing?

Potential for "young houses" with low reputations and such. And one potential source for internal aggravation.
</ul></ul>:?: 7) How does Theice interact with the outside world? Do they have territorial ambitions, or do they just want to be left alone? Who have they clashed with in the past?<ul>:eng101: 7)They seem fairly isolationist to me, and this is probably because nobody's done anything with them OOC. Now, I can see them taking on territorial aspirations if their population starts getting too high and they have crowding issues. If we do what seems reasonable to me and say that they can't breed, their population would grow slowly, but it would grow. If there are living people there and breeding, with many of them never dying off, the space and resources available would begin to be strained.<ul>:gb: [7] Does their population grow enough to want to expand borders? If they expanded borders, would that allow them to grow in population--and in such a way to still maintain a balance of living:unliving?

I think it might not be very hard to maintain and control the population, with some creative policies. On the other hand, depending upon the philosophies of those in power, the rulers may feel it behooves them--or it's their right--to expand their numbers. Policies of informed prudence versus righteous extravagence.
</ul></ul>:?: 8) What form does the Theician military take? What tactics do they use, offensively or defensively?<ul>:eng101: 8)For some reason I want them to have a militia, Switzerland-style. Everyone has some way to contribute, whether it's a government-issued weapon or magical training. Next question would be whether or not living people are in this militia. I'd say probably, as it could be an opportunity for advancement into the ranks of the vampires.<ul>:gb: [8] I can't get the image out of my mind, of a Nepoleon-style wall of unarmed undead walking forward toward incoming forces...packed with explosives.

K'pow!

I guess that's where criminal undead would go. Not right for the upper crust undead.
</ul></ul>:?: 9) What are the laws of Theice? Who enforces them and how? What are the penalties for various infractions, both amongst the living and the dead?<ul>:eng101: 9)Laws... hrm. I can imagine them being a fairly conservative society, so crimes like treason and sedition would probably be a higher priority than murder or theft. Anything that would tend to shake up the established order would be a major problem.

If they're pragmatic enough to keep their ancestors around as a zombie reserve, I can bet they'll be just as pragmatic with people they need to punish. This may include anything from killing and re-animating the remains of criminals to creating incorporeal undead servants from people who commit major crimes. I mean, what better way to punish someone who's really committed a major infraction than to keep their ghost around and enslave it?<ul>:gb: [9] I don't see the living having a great deal of influence in the laws--I think the highest ruling class would like to keep stern control over this. There may be some living amongst enforcers, but like as not, working in tandem with unliving.

I don't know if there'd be a difference in punishment for the same crime committed by living v. unliving. De facto, likely, but maybe not de jure. A concession to the hypothetical House of Commons, perhaps.
</ul></ul>:?: 10) What role, if any, does the dracolich Igunza play in Theice? What is his agenda, and what bargain has he struck with the vamps? What are his origins?<ul>:eng101: 10)I don't know anything about that. Seriously. I got nothin'.<ul>:gb: [10] Founding myth? Maybe something that has developed into a rumor/story of a possible weapon in reserve?

Of course, weapon threats are most useful when there actually is a weapon. If a dracolich doesn't exist, the rulers of Theice might be working on something else. A plan which might or might not go well.
</ul></ul>:?: 11) What other creatures and/or races can be found across the Theician penninsula? Creatures of the night, perhaps? Do they play a role in Theice's defenses? Are there wild lands, or is it all civilised?<ul>:eng101: 11)Probably every variety of intelligent undead imaginable would hang around, if only in the suburbs. I mean, if I were a nightwalker or a lich or anything, it would be important to go someplace where I'd be allowed to exist in peace without adventurers coming after me every week.

As far as wild lands, the Theicians don't actually have to feed most of their population, which means that any need for agriculture would be to support the living class. Depending on how many living people there are, the vampires would have less need for renewable resources like agricultural land and more need of urban housing for all those people who are born and never die.<ul>:gb: [11] What Kai said.

I imagine most races if not all are allowed to serve in the armed forces. Balanced in favor of the 'trusted' races, but it puts on a show of solidarity between the living and unliving.

Probably also the generally untrusted, 'creepy' living races. Ala demons, or Adam's tzelara.

Also--demons? There's Avon near Theice. What do the countries think of each other, and would demons be common in Theice? Or vampires in Avon? Be there trade? Avon could feed Theice's living, but then there'd be some dependency, which just can't be good.
</ul></ul>:?: 12) How do vamps from outside Theice regard the country, and how are they regarded in turn? Is Theice thought of as a spiritual homeland?<ul>:eng101: 12)Spiritual homeland, eh? Now that's an interesting idea. It's also possible that vampires out of Theice would view the nation as somewhat retreatist and backward, fearing the ever-changing political landscape of mortal-run nations.<ul>:gb: [12] Might not know of it! How old is Theice, compared to your average Igalan vamp? Where does your Igalan vamp come from--Theice? Off continent? Made somewhere on the continent by a drive-by-biting?

I think it's too variable to be able to say.
</ul></ul>:?: 13) What are other nations' attitudes towards Theice? Are there formal embassies? Is Theice regarded as a mere legend in some places?<ul>:eng101: 13)It'd be funny if some nations refused to acknowledge them like the US did to Cuba, but most places would probably view Theice with some combination of suspicion and annoyance at the arrogance of a nation who believes their way is best because they've been doing it for hundreds of years. "No really we have. My brother Steve was there."<ul>:gb: [13] I think your average bloke might not believe a 'country of vampires' can exist. I mean! However do they sustain themselves, magic blood out of thin air? And what sort of idiot would want to live in a country of fangies?</ul></ul></ul>

User avatar
Kai
Fighting the Iron Law of Oligarchy Since 2006
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:32 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Unread postby Kai » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:21 pm

Dia: I was corrected about the Lucio/Reshtaha thing immediately after I posted, and I can't actually give a good reason why I didn't edit that for Ultimate Correctitude.

Also, Dia has said interesting things. More people should be awesome like Dia and say things as well.

User avatar
pd Rydia
Moderator
 
Posts: 5269
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:12 pm
Location: Temple of Fiends

Unread postby pd Rydia » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:31 pm

Kai wrote:Dia: I was corrected about the Lucio/Reshtaha thing immediately after I posted, and I can't actually give a good reason why I didn't edit that for Ultimate Correctitude.
I C&P the entire page and posted it into wordpad, so I could do the stacking thingy here. Easier to follow thoughts that way, for me at least. I got confused as to who was explaining that bit, but got cleared up at the end.

Also, the post ate my color-coding. I need to, like, find some other way to differentiate between speakers now. D=


[edit]

General thoughts:


I'd like to know how old the country of Theice is.

Relatedly, are Gaeran vampires immortal, or do they just /think/ they're immortal? As in, "Well, vampires die, but not once have I seen one die of old age! Of course we're immortal!" I'm not so sure the lesser pantheon as a whole would like having immortality being butted in on, or have the ability to give that ability out wholesale, for that matter.

At what age do vampires in Theice start dying, and for what reasons? Possible sources of death that come to mind: law enforcement, military, family feuds, duels (would these be illegal, or legal, perhaps with population control in mind--would they need to be approved by a certain official?), misfired magic. Are deaths more common at certain ages amongst certain demographics, and which/what? Newer houses, maybe--certainly, some vampires have to serve as officers of law, but you just can't risk the high nobility. A certain clan at odds with one particular ruling lord? Yadda, yadda.

For that matter, what's the lifespan of the living? What sort of healing magic gets practiced, if any, and/or is it regulated? Are there more doctors and surgeons in Theice than in, say, Baron or Doma? Is Theice interested in Valthi's technology as a way to get around elemental affinity nonsense?

Is information spread around evenly amongst vampires? I'd had the idea that it wouldn't be. There's such an obvious inequality between vampires and the living--physically and religiously--and of course that leads into the inequalities between vampires and other unliving. As so, naturally, some vampires are just /better/ than others. If a human just can't be as good because they won't live as long, amongst other things, younger vampires, or vampires with less natural ability or ignoble blood are just going to be not as good as others. Thus, I imagine a lot of misinformation amongst those who are quite sure they are the best informed, as well as various manipulations by just about everyone for keeping others focused on suitable targets.

I have the impression that the vampire population of Theice think the vampire population of Theice is, on average, older than it actually is. I imagine it's hard to keep track of age, and doubly so if destruction of family records is an effect of war, interfamily quarrels, misuse of magic, punishment for crimes, etc. I wonder if there are any remaining records of the country's founding, and if so, who has access to those.

User avatar
Kelne
EXTERMINATE!!!!
 
Posts: 3606
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:02 am
Location: New Zealand

Unread postby Kelne » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:48 am

Dia wrote:
General thoughts:


I'd like to know how old the country of Theice is.


My gut says around 10,000 years, enough time for several generations of elders to rise and fall (assuming a maximum lifespan of 3,000 years, on a par with High Elves, as Gaera's longest-lived mortal race). Not that such an age would be widely known, or even necessarily believed if it were. This makes Theice seriously old, and means that their heyday was long past before upstart nations such as Baron came onto the scene.

As to why there are no contemporary human nations with an age on a par with Theice, well, it's entirely possible that the vamps may have had something to do with that. Getting rid of any potential rivals, and all that. It might be interesting to consider what a socio-political map of the time might look like. Was present-day Theice where the nation began, or is it merely what they were left with following their decline?

Dia wrote:Relatedly, are Gaeran vampires immortal, or do they just /think/ they're immortal? As in, "Well, vampires die, but not once have I seen one die of old age! Of course we're immortal!" I'm not so sure the lesser pantheon as a whole would like having immortality being butted in on, or have the ability to give that ability out wholesale, for that matter.


A very interesting question. I'd say that 3,000 years would probably be the most Lucio would be able to get away with, since that's about the upper limit of any mortal race native to Gaera. It also raises some interesting questions, as to what lengths an aging vampire will go to in order to cling to his existence. Perhaps other types of blood would be sought out, say, elven blood, draconic, or even celestial or demonic blood. Or perhaps the blood of their own kind...

Naturally, Faustian bargains and the like are another possibility.

Dia]At what age do vampires in Theice start dying, and for what reasons? Possible sources of death that come to mind: law enforcement, military, family feuds, duels (would these be illegal, or legal, perhaps with population control in mind--would they need to be approved by a certain official?), misfired magic. Are deaths more common at certain ages amongst certain demographics, and which/what? Newer houses, maybe--certainly, some vampires have to serve as officers of law, but you just can't risk the high nobility. A certain clan at odds with one particular ruling lord? Yadda, yadda.[/quote]

Hn. Difficult to say, really. I'd say a fairly high initial mortality rate, with most deaths occurring before the vampire's fifth century, as the reckless young, confident in their own immortality, take risks such that the odds will eventually catch up with them. If, on the other hand, the vampire makes it through their first millennium, odds are they'll make it all the way to the three thousand year mark.

[quote="Dia wrote:
For that matter, what's the lifespan of the living? What sort of healing magic gets practiced, if any, and/or is it regulated? Are there more doctors and surgeons in Theice than in, say, Baron or Doma? Is Theice interested in Valthi's technology as a way to get around elemental affinity nonsense?


I'd say that mortal lifespans would depend on class. The upper classes are going to have better access to healing magics, and might well make it into their 80s. The lower classes, on the other hand, would be less fortunate, especially since shadow-based healings tend to require some form of sacrifice on the caster's part.

Word of Valthi medicines and their applications probably hasn't really taken hold in Theice yet. Too recent an innovation, too distant a nation, and anyway, what could those barbarians possibly have to teach them? Though I expect that the Theicians are no slouches themselves when it comes to non-magical healing. Take holy magics out of the equation, and something has to fill the gap.

Dia wrote:Is information spread around evenly amongst vampires? I'd had the idea that it wouldn't be. There's such an obvious inequality between vampires and the living--physically and religiously--and of course that leads into the inequalities between vampires and other unliving. As so, naturally, some vampires are just /better/ than others. If a human just can't be as good because they won't live as long, amongst other things, younger vampires, or vampires with less natural ability or ignoble blood are just going to be not as good as others. Thus, I imagine a lot of misinformation amongst those who are quite sure they are the best informed, as well as various manipulations by just about everyone for keeping others focused on suitable targets.


Seems reasonable enough. Knowledge is a weapon like any other in the political machinations that go on, after all. And doling it out in controlled doses as the younger vamps advance up the hierarchy certainly evokes that feeling of a secret order with hidden knowledge for the worthy.

Dia wrote:I have the impression that the vampire population of Theice think the vampire population of Theice is, on average, older than it actually is. I imagine it's hard to keep track of age, and doubly so if destruction of family records is an effect of war, interfamily quarrels, misuse of magic, punishment for crimes, etc. I wonder if there are any remaining records of the country's founding, and if so, who has access to those.


It's terribly impolite to ask a person's age, after all. Unless a vampire is actually younger than you, there's probably no real way of knowing. The truth of the matter probably only dawns when you realise that hey, there aren't actually that many people left who're older than you. And what happened to your peers, anyway?

As far as records of the founding go, it's probable that the older clans each have their own, subtly different accounts. Actual records of the founding would be exceedingly rare after so many years, and the possessors wouldn't want them becoming public knowledge if they contradict the clan's official line.

--------------

Anyhow, the wiki entry. I think things are starting to tak shape. Still, there's definitely room for improvement. I've culled the religion and wonders section, since I thought we should start from scratch there, and 'families' could likely be merged with clans. Anyone who wants to take a stab at these or tidying stuff up should feel free.

I've also added a vampire page, which is still in its infancy and would likely benefit from having the race page template applied.

Not sure how much time I'll have to work on either page, so again, if anyone wants to do some meddling, feel free.

User avatar
pd Rydia
Moderator
 
Posts: 5269
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:12 pm
Location: Temple of Fiends

Unread postby pd Rydia » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:31 pm

note: what are the vampire skills (not needing oxygen, food, drink)
and
general appearance, if any different from the race they were turned from?

For the race table, you understand.

User avatar
Kelne
EXTERMINATE!!!!
 
Posts: 3606
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:02 am
Location: New Zealand

Unread postby Kelne » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:05 pm

Appearance: Much like the original race, but paler and with pointy teeth.

Strengths: No need to eat, drink (wine), or breathe. Immunity to disease and seriously extended lifespan. Often stronger and quicker than the average mortal, though this may be partly due to extended training.

Weaknesses: Sunlight, holy magics, garlic (for some), Very difficult to resurrect if killed.

User avatar
pd Rydia
Moderator
 
Posts: 5269
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:12 pm
Location: Temple of Fiends

Unread postby pd Rydia » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:54 pm

http://mysidia.org/rpgww/Vampires

I'm done with the page. If anyone else wants to have a go to refine it, there you are!

Idran1701
None some call is air am
 
Posts: 42197
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 9:37 am

Unread postby Idran1701 » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:11 pm

Dia: Just moved it over to Vampire to make it easier to link in both singular and plural forms.

User avatar
pd Rydia
Moderator
 
Posts: 5269
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:12 pm
Location: Temple of Fiends

Unread postby pd Rydia » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:01 pm

Kay--makes sense. :0


Return to OOC RP Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests

cron

Yalogank