RPGWW

by **Archmage144** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:48 am

...and I am of course referring to a work in progress, a new version of a "MACsys" that's basically GURPS Mecha made way fucking easier.

Early version located RPGWW Wiki!</div></p>

by **E Mouse** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:32 am

Well, this is one hell of a coincidence.

I was wondering just a few days ago about whether there was a robot-based RP here.

I guess that's been answered. <p>

<span style="font-size:xx-small;">"Their rhetoric... You didn't put communists in his bed did you!" came Amber's indignant reply.

"Why not? All I had to do was open a gate to his bed and stick up a sign saying 'Hot virgin willing to make the ultimate sacrifice in the name of international socialist fraternity.'"</span>

<span style="color:blue;font-size:xx-small;">Excaliburned:</span> <span style="font-size:xx-small;">Ah yes, I'm thinking of having the USS Bob be preserved outside the Arena as a monument of sorts</span></p>

by **Archmage144** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:47 am

As an aside, if it feels like a lot of rules are "missing," it's more or less because I didn't feel like retyping GURPS. Some things are legitimately missing because I haven't gotten there yet. <p>

RPGWW Wiki!</div></p>

by **Nakibe** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:36 pm

And some things are missing because no one likes calculating squares or square roots in the middle of making their character sheeets, I figure. Thankfully.

by **Idran1701** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:37 pm

Entirely off topic: I'd love to see a system that somehow required usage of the formal definition of a limit in char creation.

This post isn't even half-joking. Maybe like a quarter. :( <p>

"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
</p>

by **NamagomiMk0** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:24 pm

Idran: You mean the "as x approaches y, the function equals z" type of limit?

Also, Brian: I would like to ask a few questions, here if I somehow can't contact you on the board. Particularly relating to encumbrance/weight limit, and certain "variant" weapons.

[EDIT]: In case posting on the board would be more convenient, I hereby post the following questions:

1: To clarify something you may've said earlier on assuming an armor is capable of carrying all of its equipment, is there a strength requirement/encumbrance limit, or is it just "no Mega Particle Cannon" and the amount of points?

2: I would like to ask about the validity of the following "variant weapons", all of which are within the TL limit; Omni-beam projectors, Wave projectors, and all forms of Baroque Weapons mentioned.

[RE-EDIT] 3: Additionally, since missiles are NOT infinite ammo--how would you prefer we calculate "costs" of missile launchers and their ammunition? Merge the price of launcher and ammo before spending points, or simply buy each extra "shot" separately? <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=namagomimk0>NamagomiMk0</A] at: 7/9/06 13:25

by **Idran1701** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:58 pm

Formal definition. A function has a limit L if for ε > 0, there exists an N such that for all x > N, |f(x)-L| < ε. <p>

"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
</p>

by **NamagomiMk0** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:43 pm

Thought so. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

by **Spleen** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:37 am

Dranno. Stop. I dropped math for a reason. <p>-_-___-___-___-_-

"The universe is all in the mind that perceives it, and sensation is the first and only reality. If a tree falls in the forest with no creature to hear it, then there is no tree."
-Dungeons and Dragons: Complete Arcane, page 167

Arch mage144: Spleen doesn't bother with penis size contests; instead, he goes straight to penis number.</p>

by **Archmage144** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:54 pm

Regarding Nama:

1. The mega particle cannon is only an example. I'm still vacillating on the whole weight thing; if I do STR as total body STR, then I need to decide how much armor weighs. It'll really cut down on the ridiculousness of weapons, because even a very strong mech (150+) will only be able to carry 3,000 pounds of gear. It's still up in the air, and it's something I'd like some second opinions on.

The big issue here is simply how much damage output we want mecha to have. Note the enormous jumps in weight between the medium and heavy rainbow lasers, for example, or the light and medium particle cannons. The heavier weapons become prohibitively so, and this reduces maximum weapon damage by a fairly large sum:

Light Particle Cannon: 6d x 50 (average 1,050)
Medium Particle Cannon: 5d x 150 (average 2,625)

Light Rainbow Laser: 6d x 5 (x 8 shots) (average 420)
Medium Rainbow Laser: 6d x 10 (x 8 shots) (average 840)

With average mecha DR being about 300, and average mecha HP being between 1,000 and 3,000 depending on frame type, the heavier weapons may have a place, but at some point the weight becomes too ridiculous to be believable (a mech of 100 ST carrying a four ton particle cannon comes to mind).

I'm looking for suggestions on the issue. I can also scale down mecha HP, but that doesn't seem like a necessary or good idea. I'm also thinking that making armor 1 point for 10 DR will allow more flexibility instead of requiring 5 points for 50 DR.

2. Weapon variants and baroque weapons are all fine, excepting the power lens. Mage battlesuits come equipped with a 100x power lens that applies to ALL spells, just as an FYI. As an aside, pretty much any modification to a mecha that is largely cosmetic or that is just plain interesting is totally legal and will likely cost no additional points. This includes things like striker or tentacle arms, foot rollers, wings instead of jump jets, whatever.

3. Calculate the number of extra shots you want to carry, add up the total cost, divide it by 20,000 and there's your point value. 1 is the minimum point value. <p>

RPGWW Wiki!</div></p>

by **NamagomiMk0** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:05 pm

I understand the necessity to cut down on the REALLY powerful weapons. Heavy P-Cannons and 200mm cannons with explosive shells being examples of such. It IS notable, however, that overbalancing can happen the other way as well, resulting in a situation that I would prefer to call "Tanks with Muskets"--where the weapons available would do next to nothing with the available armor--and I'm ALL against that possibility.

As far as STR and encumbrance goes, I'd propose that it would be "all-or-nothing" for the encumbrance in question. Otherwise, a mecha would be limited to a ridiculously small quantity of gear (200 lb.? That's not enough for anything short of a LIGHT weapon--roughly comparable to bringing a pistol to a battlefield in this case). An alternative option is to use 4e "unencumbered" (STR^2*0.2) as the weight limit here. I've bothered to do calculations for such while I was at my grandparents, and can therefore create a quick list. This would result in higher capacities at higher STR ratings (though keeping STR 100's capacity at 2000), while making lower STR a much bigger penalty (1620 capacity as opposed to 1800 at STR 90). Just a suggestion here.

Armor causing encumbrance is personally something I'd like to not deal with to an extent, further penalizing those who desire to stay "lighter" by even further restricting choices of weaponry viable. Then again, you know my stance on mecha combat "style"--down with Mechwarrior, up with Armored Core and the like. That is irrelevant, however.

Another factor to take into consideration is DR vs. automatic weapons--whether it applies to each shot of the burst, or just once for the whole burst. This affects effectiveness against, in particular, laser weapons--which are primarily useful for range and accuracy, not high single-hit damage. Though interesting things can be said for the maximum "effective" range for lasers--ask Idran for the details.

Frame weight, to an extent, I can see affecting weight capacities, as this would also reflect structural integrity of the armor in question. However, caution must be taken to ensure that this doesn't make the whole thing de-evolve into a Mechwarrior-style "slow-ass big mechs own everything".

Also, lastly, I hereby propose that Limpet Mine Dispensers fall into the same category as missiles for limited use--particularly for balancing reasons. While on the topic of melee weapons, however, I might note the general "weakness" of plasma-blades. For a 3.2 million (160-point cost) Heavy Plasma Blade, it does only 2d6*10 damage, with armor counting 20% of normal. Quite minimal, given the cost. With an average damage of 70--most forms of DR, even counting 1/5 normal will block most of a heavy one--and average DR (300) will render any lesser variant completely useless. If they are to be usable to any extent, they, along with other melee weapons, will need to be powered up in usefulness to make them relatively viable options. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

by **Zemyla** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:57 pm

Shaun: Blasphemy! I made an Excel sheet to calculate all the stuff for my mecha! And then I twiddled with it to get everything just so and the calculations automatically updated themselves! Ah, the good old days! <p>-----
Do not taunt Happy Fun Zemyla.

<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I think boobs are the lesser of two evils. - Inverse (Pervy)
Dammit, Dan, I'm not dating a damn NPC! - OOC Will (Will Baseton)
Of course! Anything worth doing is worth doing completely wrong! - Travis English
Ultimately, wizards and clerics don't say, "Gee, I want to become a lich because weapons hurt less and I don't have to worry about being backstabbed; that whole 'eternal life' thing is just a fringe benefit."-Darklion
But this one time I killed a walrus with my bare hands, and I suddenly understood spherical coordinates. - KnightsofSquare
Also, when you've worked a 36-hour shift as an intern you too just might pour yourself a catful of coffee and sit down to cuddle with your travel mug. -eirehound
</span>

Brotherhood of Elitist Bastards</p>

by **Archmage144** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:09 am

The real question regarding mecha at this point is mostly scale.

GURPS is designed such that it should be theoretically possible to drop mecha into any game world and have it work out systematically. This means that whoever sat down and compiled the weapons list did so with full knowledge of things like "how many hit points does the average small house have?" At this point, I would like to preserve that sense of scale, which is why the numbers in question are so huge.

A person has 10 hit points; a handgun does 2d+1 damage. A vehicle should be a little sturdier, comparatively speaking, than a human being with soft fleshy bits, so if a mecha has 1,000 hit points and a couple hundred points of DR, then mecha are pretty much immune to small-arms fire. While we could hypothetically divide all the numbers by 100 or something, it'd kill the universality of the system. As such, in the event that I decided to do weight the way I'm talking about, armor, too, would be reduced by means of compensation. In short, I'm looking for the lowest numbers possible that still achieve the appropriate sense of scale. As it stands, my estimates regarding DR pricing are based around the damages of the higher-end weapons. If a mecha's damage output per round can be in the neighborhood of 6,000 before DR (and maybe 4,000 after DR), which is theoretically a really easy thing to do, then there needs to be some system for player mecha to survive more than a round or two of combat. Lowering damages across the board increases overall survivability of individual player characters (and important NPCs, without GM tricks).

At this point, I'm using standard rules and saying that mecha aren't encumbered, but that their maximum load is equal to STR x 20. This is really more than enough capacity for weapons, because most weapons that don't have a four-digit weight weigh between 300 and 600 pounds. If I ignore armor weight, this means that the average mech can have five or six built-in weapons; stronger mechs would be able to carry more, and each STR increment would allow 200 pounds more weaponry. Six to eight built-in or wielded weapons seems like a really reasonable number to me, so I'm okay with that.

This makes the most likely standard weapons as follows, based on weight:

Light Rainbow Laser
Plasma Gatling
Gatling Blaster
Light Particle Cannon
30mm Gatling
45mm Autocannon
20mm Gauss Cannon
100mm Medium Missile Launcher
Any contact weapons

The average damage of the lt. rainbow laser is just over 400 (assuming half the shots in a burst hit), whereas the damage of the lt. particle cannon is just over 1,000. If average armor is something like 300, and average HP is something like 1,200, this works out reasonably well. The particle cannon is all or nothing, one shot, hit or miss, whereas the laser is quite likely to hit with at least some of its spray, whether it actually works out to be enough to deal damage or not, so the two weapons being equal point-wise is reasonable as well.

In short, I'm trying to find precisely the "right" numbers that will achieve cinematic mecha combat without crucial battles being decided by one or two hits with a huge cluster of linked-fire weapons.

DR vs. automatics applies to each shot of the burst. According to GURPS standard rules, a laser is effectively recoilless, which means that the damage from an automatic laser burst is summed before DR is applied once against the entire burst's worth of damage. This makes lasers especially useful against heavily armored targets, even if the damage output of ballistic weapons with a higher rate of fire is technically higher on a shot-by-shot basis. As such, machine guns and the like would achieve maximal effectiveness against less heavily-armored targets, and their rate of fire would make them effective against faster moving targets. Mages come to mind.

What I really need to do at this point is probably a little bit of mechanical playtesting; people need to throw together some mechs and we need to battle them to see how the system actually plays...

Edit: At this point I'm officially going to say that I like 10 DR per 1 point as opposed to forcing the 50 for 5. I'm also going to note that I'm probably going to apply a sidebar rule from GURPS Mecha that is referred to as "super ECM," which basically means that even though mechs will have good sensors, there won't be battles going on at five miles apart even if some weapons theoretically have that range. <p>

RPGWW Wiki!</div></p>Edited by: Archmage144 

at: 7/10/06 1:14

by **Kelne** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:11 am

Point of curiosity - How does one work in a mage paired with a Tek in a single mecha? Not that all the mathematical mumbo-jumbo means a great deal to me... <p>Centuries of threats of "I'll turn you all to stone!" and "I'll knock you all down!" have caused Domans to develop an instinct to form small groups. For safety, I assure you. â€“ Keir</p>

by **Archmage144** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:05 pm

One doesn't; tek mecha get very touchy about "visitors," and those that exert an astral presence are even more disruptive to the connection that needs to exist between tek and astral symbiote.

Regarding the math mumbo jumbo, at this point the only reason half of what I'm saying would make any sense is if you had a familiarity with GURPS and probably a copy of GURPS Mecha in front of you to reference all the shit we're talking about. Once I get a more polished version of the system together I'll actually be more than happy to explain things to potential players. <p>

RPGWW Wiki!</div></p>Edited by: Archmage144 

at: 7/10/06 12:08

by **Zemyla** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:55 pm

Will mages in powered armor be competitive with Teks and machinists in full mecha? <p>-----
Do not taunt Happy Fun Zemyla.

<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I think boobs are the lesser of two evils. - Inverse (Pervy)
Dammit, Dan, I'm not dating a damn NPC! - OOC Will (Will Baseton)
Of course! Anything worth doing is worth doing completely wrong! - Travis English
Ultimately, wizards and clerics don't say, "Gee, I want to become a lich because weapons hurt less and I don't have to worry about being backstabbed; that whole 'eternal life' thing is just a fringe benefit."-Darklion
But this one time I killed a walrus with my bare hands, and I suddenly understood spherical coordinates. - KnightsofSquare
Also, when you've worked a 36-hour shift as an intern you too just might pour yourself a catful of coffee and sit down to cuddle with your travel mug. -eirehound
</span>

Brotherhood of Elitist Bastards</p>

by **NamagomiMk0** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:15 pm

So...if this Super ECM deal is in effect, does this mean that the sensor range and radical stealth upgrades are useless/redundant, and I therefore have to remake four mecha designs? <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

by **Archmage144** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:39 am

Zem: Yes.

Nama: Sensor range maybe, stealth, no. <p>

RPGWW Wiki!</div></p>

by **NamagomiMk0** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:22 am

Stupid question approaches!

Though quirks are nonexistent, I would like to ask which character advantages and disadvantages (and while we're at it, Auracore personality disadvantages) would technically be banned and/or mandatory, and, if applicable, why. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

by **Zemyla** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:47 am

So it's not going to be like this?

<p>-----
Do not taunt Happy Fun Zemyla.

<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I think boobs are the lesser of two evils. - Inverse (Pervy)
Dammit, Dan, I'm not dating a damn NPC! - OOC Will (Will Baseton)
Of course! Anything worth doing is worth doing completely wrong! - Travis English
Ultimately, wizards and clerics don't say, "Gee, I want to become a lich because weapons hurt less and I don't have to worry about being backstabbed; that whole 'eternal life' thing is just a fringe benefit."-Darklion
But this one time I killed a walrus with my bare hands, and I suddenly understood spherical coordinates. - KnightsofSquare
Also, when you've worked a 36-hour shift as an intern you too just might pour yourself a catful of coffee and sit down to cuddle with your travel mug. -eirehound
</span>

Brotherhood of Elitist Bastards</p>

by **Archmage144** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:37 pm

Uh, I don't have a list of advantages and disadvantages that are either. There will be no "mandatory" advantages. <p>

RPGWW Wiki!</div></p>

by **NamagomiMk0** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:57 am

And what of number of disads or number of points from disads, out of curiosity? Whether it's the 40 listed in GURPS Lite, or (what I remember) 50 from the last time you tried such a RP (and it horribly crashed into the ground) <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

by **Archmage144** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:36 pm

If I run a game, the "limits" on disadvantages will be "use judgment," as always. No one really wants to play a blind, deaf, hunchbacked quadrapeligic with body odor, do they? <p>

RPGWW Wiki!</div></p>

by **NamagomiMk0** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:00 pm

Not last I checked, that's for sure.

Well, maybe some people who shant be named do, but I'm just not going to ask on that. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

by **GC130A** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:15 pm

I would!

But only if he could, say, rip the Golden Gate Bridge from its foundations and fly with it. Or wipe the entire planet clean of life just by thinking about it.

by **Archmage144** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:34 pm

GC wants the "Brain in a Jar" disadvantage. <p>

RPGWW Wiki!</div></p>

by **NamagomiMk0** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:57 pm

Yeah. GC wants to be a brain-in-a-jar that can do nothing but sit there and yell insults at people. XP <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

by **GC130A** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:39 pm

Nazi science sneers at utility!

by **NamagomiMk0** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:58 pm

Actually, I'm reminded more of Ego Trip. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

by **KingOfDoma** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:42 pm

Really? I was reminded of Baxter Stockman.

by **Archmage144** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:44 pm

With an appropriate voice synthesizer, the Rapier Wit advantage, and sufficient ranks in Bard skill, GC could play a brain in a jar that insults people and causes them physical damage in the process. <p>

RPGWW Wiki!</div></p>

by **GC130A** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:02 am

Depending on the damage involved, this could be an effective machinist and mage-killer. I am intrigued!

...and I -have- always wanted to play a Major Kreissack. :D

Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=gc130a>GC130A</A] at: 7/16/06 0:12

by **Archmage144** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:23 am

GC: Damage is one point on a critical success only. =P

Also, I have come to the conclusion that the standard mecha weapon list is really, really boring. As a result, I'm going to come up with a new one using some of the entries from the old list that are actually viable and scrap all the weapons that are either too powerful to be practical or otherwise aren't that interesting and replace them with a slew of more interesting options.

As it stands, the list is a lot of "laser, laser, bigger laser, really really big laser, machine gun." So I want suggestions for interesting mecha weapons; what kind of combat gear would you want to trick out your suit with? Keep in mind that the Gaeran setting allows for some outrageous shit like lightning guns or dragon mecha with plasma throwers in their "mouths," so I'm looking for all kinds of creative angles here. <p>

RPGWW Wiki!</div></p>

by **NamagomiMk0** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:04 am

Well, I already gave you the prism cloud discharger idea. But as for others...lessee. Most of the ideas, you can parallel with (admittedly overweight) weapons given just by changing around the descriptions. This includes grenade launchers, bazookas, rifles, pulse rifles, lasers, laser cannons, plasma guns/flamethrowers, and all that stuff. But aside from that...lessee...

Cluster-bombs and maybe a "shotgun" variant for automatics? Plasma that clings after it hits to keep burning. Possibly some sort of cryo-spray analog to plasmas? Sonic weapons, variant warheads for missiles...I think that would be a bit of a start. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

by **KingOfDoma** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:16 am

... Summons?

Or, I dunno. Light machinist armor with a harpoon launcher of some sort. Instant robot archer.

Or perhaps... satellite launchers? Little "bits" that do some fightin' for ya?

... acid sprayers. Corrode that mech but good.

... do we have nanotech in this universe? For if so, gank something from NGE and have some mech utilize said tech to "consume" other mechs for instant repair?

... rollerblades?

... burrowing EMP grenades? Ya fire them at your target, they chew through the metal to the core of the bot, and fire off a localized electromagnetic pulse to completely neuter or at least disable the target?

Charged plasma or napalm of some kind, in some iteration?

"Paper planes", expendable UAVs that deliver air strikes?

Melee plasma weapons? Or any kind of melee weapon you can superheat?

... high beam headlights to blind the enemy.

Signal scramblers for external sensors.

Ether-enhanced grenades? If ether works that way...?

OK, OK. I'm either out of ideas or any MORE ideas will get more dumb. Whatever. Maybe more tomorrow, if I feel intelligent. <p>

</div></p>

by **Kelne** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:20 am

One of the more obvious ones, but...

Many mages, lacking the endurance to hurl spells at enemy mecha through a protracted engagement, sport attachments for wands on their forearms, allowing them a potentially endless variety of magical firepower. 'Reloading' is as simple as slotting in a fresh wand, in a manner not dissimilar to loading a new clip into a firearm. Of course, wands can get expensive, particularly for higher-end spells, so most mages don't carry a large number. <p>Centuries of threats of "I'll turn you all to stone!" and "I'll knock you all down!" have caused Domans to develop an instinct to form small groups. For safety, I assure you. â€“ Keir</p>

by **NamagomiMk0** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:55 pm

As for me, I have an idea regarding dischargers. For the quantity, one can have three choices of ammunition which to choose from--each one having a different effect. So far, we've got the three "standard" and I have four ideas for newer ones--though the last two would likely be negated by the Super ECM condition anyway

So in effect, one would be able to choose three of the following:

-Chaff: Interferes with radar within the area.
-Hot Smoke: Blocks thermal sensors and direct vision into the area.
-Missile Decoys (flares): Draws away missiles fired at you.
-Prism Cloud: Interferes with ladar and beam weapons fired into/through the area.
-Mines: Stay in the area. Explode after X seconds or when someone comes into contact/proximity
-Sensor Decoys: Can move in a direction designated upon launch. Show up on radar and/or thermal as if another mecha. Can't draw missile fire.
-ECM pods: Remain stationary. One cannot lock onto targets through the effect radius of the pod. This effectively prevents missile lock and targeting bonuses from sensors. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

by **KingOfDoma** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:03 pm

... huh. Teleport beacons? Fire it somewhere you want to be and 'port to that area, at an advantageous angle to your enemy?

by **NamagomiMk0** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:15 pm

Not for dischargers, anyway. Dischargers are "general area" types of things.

Also: Self-destruct. Self-destruct is good. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

by **Kelne** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:14 pm

Following a chat with Chaz, a few refinements to some of his ideas.

EMP grenades, utilising a directional charge to overwhelm a target's shielding, are very much a one-hit-kill weapon. However, owing to the bulky nature of the device, and its comparative delicacy, it needs to be hand-placed upon the target mech. Something of a tall order.

"Paper planes" Become reconnaissance drones - small, difficult to detect craft that can provide a birds' eye view of the battlefield. The higher-end models may even be comparable to familiars.

Satellite launchers, while impractical from a fighting standpoint, are perfect for launching decoys to divert incoming missiles and the like. If coupled with an illusion, they may be able to confuse even those with a direct line of sight.

Nanotech, I think, is a bit beyond the tech level. At least as far as military applications go. It may be an idea to hash out a few details on the setting. Get an idea of what is or isn't possible, perhaps some rough outlines of modern society or politics. <p>Centuries of threats of "I'll turn you all to stone!" and "I'll knock you all down!" have caused Domans to develop an instinct to form small groups. For safety, I assure you. â€“ Keir</p>

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