So rough it can scratch diamond

RP-related discussion otherwise not covered in the Character Closet.
NamagomiMk0
 
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Re: Made to sound relatively nice, and not irate.

Unread postby NamagomiMk0 » Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:12 am

Not to say that it's useless. It's more of the simple fact that your impact weapons, such as say, a warhammer (FAR superior to a club) are going to find the most use in the hands of the stronger types. The damage mod deal is going to affect all of your currently unlisted solid hand-weapons, so all that would make sense in that hammers will likely have some sort of place. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

Archmage144
 

Re: Made to sound relatively nice, and not irate.

Unread postby Archmage144 » Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:53 pm

A bludgeoning weapon to deliver mines wouldn't be totally useless; such a weapon would extend your effective range, because otherwise you'd have to be in the same hex as your opponent to use what is effectively a grappling effect. And if you're going to plant a mine on an opponent, wouldn't you want to be as far away as you could when it actually went off?

I would appreciate it, Nama, if you wouldn't decry possible weapons or strategies just because you don't think they're stylistically what you want your mech to do. I've always enjoyed the idea of mecha with big bashing weapons going at it in close quarters when ammunition is low; in the few Mechwarrior tabletop games I played one battle came down to two mechs attempting to beat the shit out of each other with the severed limbs of other fallen mecha, and that was both really cool and incredibly hilarious.

On the subject of using "solid" weapons, Zem has a very good point. The potential for knockback just isn't there with a plasma weapon designed to cut. However, knockback does not imply damage, just force. So while it might be possible to use a weapon of that nature to strike an enemy, I've run the math on what GURPS Mecha calls "baroque" weapons, and their actual damage turns out to be really sad unless they weigh as much as a skyscraper. Weapons proportional to MAC armors would ultimately not do a hell of a lot of damage, though the force might definitely shove the enemy around without actually breaking through its protective measures. The net result is something like two participants on American Gladiators striking each other with giant foam bats. You might knock your opponent over, but you aren't going to break his skin.

I don't personally think that this is a "problem" per se because it's realistic; however, using vibro or monomolecular "solid" cutting weapons should definitely be viable, so I'm going to put in a little work on figuring that out soon.

As an aside, there's no reason a mech couldn't have a big bashing weapon of some sort, but the standard "club," for example, probably isn't going to be a very effective weapon--when fighting other mecha. Anything with an impaling point that can get through armor is definitely possibly useful, though, and let's not forget that not all targets for mecha are other mecha; pulling up a huge steel lamppost and smashing nearby structures or infantry is totally badass. <p>
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Capntastic
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Re: Made to sound relatively nice, and not irate.

Unread postby Capntastic » Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:06 pm

I fully support mecha with melee weapons and even more so the concept of grabbing things and smashing things.

If there's anything ZOE2 taught me, it's that impaling an enemy mecha with a hurled support beam is much more stylish than just shooting it down.

Edit: I'm too lazy to read through the whole thread right now, but is a lot of cool ECW/ECCM stuff gonne be implemented? Radar jammers and stuff make me smile :D

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NamagomiMk0
 
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Why not to post when you are particularly irate for the day

Unread postby NamagomiMk0 » Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:22 pm

Right. Thanks for letting me know that I am being a dick.

Now, also to ask--is the listed price for missiles the per-missile price, or the price for the launcher? Noting the limited-ammo feature--I regrettably neglected to input a "Cost Per Shot" section for missiles, rockets, and contact mines.

Additionally, as the Super ECM rule will be in place, it'll have to be defined as far as what the form of the "ECM" is, and what kind of effects it would have in general--it says that visual confirmation is the only sure way, but aside from that...hn. Discussion might be necessary to come up with a feasible idea on the issue.

Also, Zero, there are multiple forms of ECM available; you've got surface cloaking--both radar and visual. Additionally, chaff to disrupt both radar and ladar, hot smoke to block visual and thermal, prism clouds to block ladar and energy weapons, flares to divert missiles, transmission jammers, and built-in electronic jammers that interfere with radar and missile lock. Unless otherwise specified by Brian, according to the manual, the ratings are as follows:

Deceptive Jammer: -2 to notice with radar, -2 to guided missile attack rolls.
Chaff: -2 per yard to radar and ladar checks, minimum -5
Prism Cloud: Automatic ladar blocking, blocks lasers fired into or through cloud
Radical Stealth: -10 to notice with radar and ladar
Chameleon Stealth: -6 to notice visually and with ladar, or -3 if moving.
Hot smoke: -1/yard to notice with vision, ladar, and thermal.
Transmission Jammer: Blocks all direct transmissions within or through radius. Can be used to cut someone off, though if you do that, you are an asshole.
Flares: -5 to missile attacks aimed at you for the round it was fired in and the round afterward.

So, as you can see, there is a good deal in the way of ECMs. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=namagomimk0>NamagomiMk0</A] at: 8/8/06 21:30

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Capntastic
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Re: Why not to post when you are particularly irate for the

Unread postby Capntastic » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:01 pm

Yay

EDIT: Is there information on non-combat mecha?

Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=capntastic>Capntastic</A]&nbsp; Image at: 8/9/06 20:06

Archmage144
 

Re: Why not to post when you are particularly irate for the

Unread postby Archmage144 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:32 pm

Since hard rules with lots of numbers are generally unnecessary for such things, the answer is "no," but there are certainly non-combat vehicles of a mecha variety, such as mechanical walkers or powered suits used for construction work or mining operations.

Regarding missiles, I was thinking there'd be some base ammo size (5? 10?) and that additional ammuntion would cost extra. Haven't put down values yet. <p>
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NamagomiMk0
 
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Re: Why not to post when you are particularly irate for the

Unread postby NamagomiMk0 » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:33 am

Hm. That sounds like a good idea, when I think about it. GURPS did that with the contact mines, though I'm not so sure whether to do that with the missiles and rockets.

For those not in the know, with GURPS contact mines, one had a starting ammo limit of 5, and could buy extra "clips" of 5 shots for half the cost of the original weapon.

As for the given lists, I would think the ammo count would have to do, partly for balance reasons and partly for "realism" reasons, with the weapon "weight"--to be more exact, the size. Though the particular weapon type might affect cost to a good extent--High-Reaction Missiles and EMP Mines are arguably the ones that would likely cost the most for extras in this case--though that's just my opinion.

Edit: Having had time to think about this issue, I'm at least somewhat ready to give my suggestion on how to handle limited-ammo weapons. Of course, as we all know, these fall into three basic categories; rockets, missiles, and contact mines. My idea has been to base the cost of extra ammo on the original cost--one half of the cost of the BASE weapon type, plus a value equal to the difference between the original base and the modified base
As such, listed here:

Micro-rockets:1
Light rockets:2
Medium rockets:5
Heavy rockets:9

Micro-missiles:1
Light missiles:1
Medium missiles:3
Heavy missiles:8
High-Reaction Micro-Missiles:3
High-Reaction Light Missiles:4
High-Reaction Medium Missiles:5
High-Reaction Heavy Missiles:11
Streak Micro-Missiles:1
Streak Light Missiles:1
Streak Medium Missiles:6

Light Contact Mine:2
Heavy Contact Mine:4
Light EMP Mine:4
Heavy EMP Mine:6

Note that these are reload costs, not effective "standard" costs, and are paid in addition to the base weapon cost.

As for base ammunition quantities, I'm still unsure as to some. However, I have some ideas for a few more obvious ones--

Heavy mines are 5-shot. Heavy missiles and heavy rockets, no matter the type, are also 5-shot. Micro-missiles and micro-rockets are, regardless of type, 10-shot. Meanwhile, it is notable that mines don't use ammo until you hit with it--thus, it's quite likely that light mines would also be 5-shot types. As far as others, I haven't quite decided yet; rockets have no guidance system, but more explosive charge... <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=namagomimk0>NamagomiMk0</A] at: 8/14/06 10:16

Archmage144
 

Re: Why not to post when you are particularly irate for the

Unread postby Archmage144 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:39 pm

Now that I have a list of weapons and costs, I'm less concerned with the nitty-gritty of mechanical things and more interested in seeing some character concepts. If I have sufficient interest (which I seem to) I'm wanting to take on four or five people to start an RP either Friday or Saturday, whichever works out to be more convenient for the people involved.

If anyone needs help with the GURPS-y side of things or doesn't know GURPS and wants some assistance, please contact me or post. <p>
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NamagomiMk0
 
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Re: Why not to post when you are particularly irate for the

Unread postby NamagomiMk0 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:22 pm

Right. I'm definitely doing this. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

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KingOfDoma
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Re: Why not to post when you are particularly irate for the

Unread postby KingOfDoma » Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:30 pm

I'm in too.


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Kai
Fighting the Iron Law of Oligarchy Since 2006
 
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Re: Why not to post when you are particularly irate for the

Unread postby Kai » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:39 pm

You've got me. <p>-------------------------
"It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But the half-wit remains a half-wit and the emperor remains an emperor." -- Sandman "The Kindly Ones" </p>

NamagomiMk0
 
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KWIK!!! SPAAHMM MORR ZERORS!

Unread postby NamagomiMk0 » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:06 am

I might note a potential discrepancy--while the MACsys guide states that Electronics Operation is Mental/Easy, the GURPS books list them as Mental/Average.

Likewise, does one still get the bonus to effective skill for guns/beam weapons as listed for all /TL missile weapons for having average (10-11) or above-average (12+) WIT? <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

GC130A
 
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Re: KWIK!!! SPAAHMM MORR ZERORS!

Unread postby GC130A » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:15 am

You know what? Why not. I'll at least lurk for certain. :D


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Zemyla
 
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Re: KWIK!!! SPAAHMM MORR ZERORS!

Unread postby Zemyla » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:02 pm

I would love to, except I probably will be tied up with homework. ;_;

But who knows? I might show up. <p>-----
Do not taunt Happy Fun Zemyla.

<span style="font-size:xx-small;">I think boobs are the lesser of two evils. - Inverse (Pervy)
Dammit, Dan, I'm not dating a damn NPC! - OOC Will (Will Baseton)
Of course! Anything worth doing is worth doing completely wrong! - Travis English
Ultimately, wizards and clerics don't say, "Gee, I want to become a lich because weapons hurt less and I don't have to worry about being backstabbed; that whole 'eternal life' thing is just a fringe benefit."-Darklion
But this one time I killed a walrus with my bare hands, and I suddenly understood spherical coordinates. - KnightsofSquare
Also, when you've worked a 36-hour shift as an intern you too just might pour yourself a catful of coffee and sit down to cuddle with your travel mug. -eirehound
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Kelne
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Re: Why not to post when you are particularly irate for the

Unread postby Kelne » Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:15 pm

While interested, I unfortunately have work. I will, however, ask for a transcript. <p>Centuries of threats of "I'll turn you all to stone!" and "I'll knock you all down!" have caused Domans to develop an instinct to form small groups. For safety, I assure you. – Keir</p>

NamagomiMk0
 
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HELPFUL ADDENDUM!

Unread postby NamagomiMk0 » Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:54 pm

Things mentioned that, assuming they still pertain to MAC, would be notable!

Technology Level 9 cockpits (which is assumed to be the TL of these mecha) confer a number of bonuses to the pilot through a holographic VR-display or other such advanced imaging, including, but not limited to:

-+1 to Electronics Operation (Communications) and (Sensors)
-+1 to Piloting (Mecha) skill
-+1 to Free-fall skill
-Subtracts all Weapon Snapshot (SS) values by 7

Move rating is eqivalent to half the mecha's speed in MPH.

For the average humanoid mecha, length and width are each 1/3 of height, in proportions, though variation is likely to be present.

One can step over or step on things that have a size modifier of 2+ less than yours. Things that have a size mod of 2+ higher can do so to you. Anything can, with the proper abilities, jump on anything.

Other details, lack the effective "stats" in MACsys to be able to be statistically quantified. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

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