GMing and You

[FF Fanatic 80]

In light of the recent thread, I thought I'd try kickstarting something a little different from the past. Normally, when a thread about GMing gets started, it's full of tips on what to improve, and links to helpful documents and such.

For this, I'd like to try a different approach.


Instead of posting tips, I'd like people to post here if you've considered GMing before, but didn't go through with it. If you want, explain your reasons or concerns as well. This should go without saying, but in light of recent events, please try to leave out any personal grudges that may be invovled. Mostly looking for things like lack of confidence, lack of free time, mutant space kitties, and stuff.

So basically, instead of posting fixes to the problem, I'm curious what some of the problems actually are.

And to start, I'll go myself.


Two things usually spring to mind for why I don't try to GM:

1) The one time I tried to pull off an 'Epic' RP, with Kate, Scott and others invovled, I felt it was a disaster. Said plot was Stephan overcoming and shedding the Mazoku 'taint' a certain God stuck within him. Rereading the transcript, I really didn't give anyone involved much to do. The plot was basically decided before the RP began, and the RPers were pretty much along the ride for the 'story' being told.

I recognize that now, and somewhat know the causes. I already knew what I wanted to happen for Stephan, and basing an RP around that, when I wasn't willing to give leeway (IE: maybe they fail and he becomes a monster?) was a bad idea. Being a bit of a control freak over my character's fates doesn't help either, heh. =P But it does usually make me nervous about trying to GM, even if it's just an on the spot silly RP in chat.


2) I have a hard time planning RP's that aren't silly or mundane in nature. I've seen a lot of posts from people wanting something a little more 'important' for an RP plot. But when I sit down to try and plan out the general plot, and things for the party to do, it's get huge really fast, and becomes a nightmare to sort out and get together.

For example, there's a plot I'm trying to work out that would invovle Doma, Riva, and possibly areas of Solasia. I have a few characters concepts down, a few locations, subplot ideas, and a very general summary of what the overall story is going to be about. But trying to make enough subplots, or tie them all together in a way that makes sense, makes my brain hurt to say the least. Not sure if this is due to a lack of imagination, or just poor organizational skills, heh.


So that's mine, how about you, fellow Rpgww-ers?

[Groxley Grunk]

Not sure if it counts... but I can tell you issues I have with tabletop GMin'.

Mostly it's that most games devolve into killin' shit with dice. People don't really "ArrrPee" too much, and I'm not sure how to fix that.

Adlibing is pretty tough to do for an extended period of time with the various NPCs I tend to whip up, but that's another story, me thinks.

[The Great Nevareh]

I'm tremendously bad at the whole "Board RP" thing, I've recently discovered. I'm used to GMing in sessions that last several hours, having long, detailed story arcs that might take as long as a year to accomplish with weekly gaming. I guess it might take as long as a decade, or more, to do one of those on the board, which makes me think I ought to stop trying to GM here. I need face to face interaction for it to work and I'm failing miserably at it.

I mean, in Rain of Ashes, the characters are supposed to go to Holdenburgh, then back to Jansen, eventually get caught up in a war, discover what really happened at the end of the world, and make their way to the abode of god. Considering we're still in the first 1% of the story after 182 posts, I'm questioning my efficacity as a GM. <p>[---------------------------]
"There is great disorder under Heaven, and the situation is excellent."
-Mao Tse-Tung

"I eat the talking bees because I am George Washington Christ"
-From "Bob the Ball"</p>

[SALSAlys]

Board RPs... move really slowly, unless I feel like I am forcing things to punt along.

Chat RPs are better, but then I feel rushed sometimes, trying to keep things going. I'm better with handling small-scale things (ie: Haunted house 'dungeon', maybe a festival) rather than really big plotty ones, mostly because I don't think I could do the latter justice.

So yeah.

[pd Rydia]

Instead of posting tips, I'd like people to post here if you've considered GMing before, but didn't go through with it.

I've /never/ received discouragement from GMing. Well, until this month, indirectly, with Brian's post to Sage's Psuedo-Plotty RP thread concerning epic plots. Like Dave, I'm drawn less to epics and more to the mundane and silly, for a variety of reasons which aren't directly on the topic of this thread.

At any rate, that's related to the main problem, anyway; no feedback. I ran RPs that were riddled with flaws, and all I got was "no, it's okay"/"I'll post soon"/"*internet thumbs up!*". Plenty of things led me to believe that the RPs were more of a chore than a game for the RPers involved, but since I didn't get any feedback about improving, it was 'my job' to magically stumble upon The Fix to change it.

Mind-reading games make for instant fun-kill.


And, to be honest, I'm not interested in GMing again, at all. I'm to understand that it's our patriotic duty to RPGWW to GM or whatnot. But, I'm not willing to "get better" at GMing through guessing games and running RPs which aren't fun for the people involved--especially /me/. I care about me a lot. <p>

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[Jak Snide]

With Dia on the subject of feedback. I'm not complaining about the most recent group I GMed for, but I prefer to have people tell me what I did wrong than give a simple "thanks" for me running something. This is extra important if I'm running a series of RPs/a particularly long campaign.

[Archmage144]

GMing the "mundane" and "the silly" is cool. I find that it's fun to do a more light-hearted RP now and again, and a lot of people have characters that fit into settings like that. I've done them myself, or at the very least, I've used anti-climax as a device in my RPs (see "the Thimble of Tunare" RP if you want an example, it's in the logs somewhere). I love anti-climax. >.> It can occasionally be hilarious.

My only problem is when those are the only thing that ever happens because no one ever does anything else. I personally loved all of the RPs you ran, Dia, just for your information, even the ones that didn't finish--I sure as hell wish they did. Ryuugami's Temple was awesome, for example. It's sad that you'll never GM again, but I don't plan to try to convince you otherwise.

Lately, my biggest obstacle to GMing is time and motivation. I am absurdly busy most of the time, and even when I'm not studying or doing homework, I feel like I should be because I'm procrastinating in favor of doing something else. I theoretically could always find something to study, which is absurd, but I feel guilty sometimes for not doing it.

I GMed last year for my gaming group, but that group fell apart somewhat and I don't know if I really want to GM for them anymore. It was becoming a real chore at times, among other things. Some of my current GMing ideas are unfortunately going to be very difficult to implement given the time involved, and the last couple times I considered trying it again it was impossible to get the people I wanted to have compatible schedules, which really sucked. I have one idea kicking around that doesn't take place in Gaera and uses GURPS, but I don't think that would wind up working as well as I like because I haven't had good luck with GURPS lately and I really think I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't do something in Gaera. <p>

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[Mechanisto]

This'll be quick.

I love Rping. I love GMing, and I love participating. I don't think I've ever completed more than one or two RPs. I join and create quite a few, so that's a pretty low level of satisfaction.

The reason why is pretty simple (apart from how lazy I can be sometimes); people in my RPs for some reason play very reactively, and I am prone to the same sort of behavior. They react to the GM, and the other characters. This is largely a good thing. I like it when characters interact in interesting ways. But too much of a good thing can be... dumb and stupid. This presents three primary problems.

1) Players are more likely to get bored from inactivity, and wander off.

2) Characters are less likely to charge ahead, attempting to approach the plot in a way that interests them.

3) Characters are less likely to draw other characters into the plot in interesting ways.

To me, an RP is like a big-ol sandbox; it's full of players, and all these cool toys and environments and situations. And the fun part is not following a script; it's watching your skeletal dream flesh itself out as the characters build their own story around the cool stuff you put in the sandbox. The fun part is watching all these things bounce off each other as they do what's natural to them, and interact with other peopel and places and things doing what comes naturally to *them.* As far as scripted events go, It's all about interesting choices... if a script or encounter does not provide the players with an interesting choice regarding themselves and/or the plot, then maybe it isn't so important.

I've RPed with some really amazing, creative, spirited, and funloving people. Seriously... y'all are darned good at what you do! But just as players need to be rewarded with experience and loot, GMs need to be rewarded with feedback... positive and negative. I become very disinterested in an RP when nobody is talking about how good or bad or "just fine" it is. I *think* I'm a good GMer and RPer, but I don't know what everybody else thinks of my efforts. And it feels like I'll never have any way of knowing unless my work is astonishingly jaw-droppingly good or utterly horrendously bad. I suspect this might be a self-confidence issue on my part, combined with how I still feel liek a total newbie and outsider here... but as they say, a pat on the back or a point in the right direction is sometimes all you need to keep ya going.

I know it's a wierd thing to say, but as a GM I would like to feel involved too. Not just in an RP, but in the community.

ALSO! I've never actually been in more than maybe one chat RP, apart from collaborative writing with a friend. I would really, really, really like to try joining or even running a chat RP, with a plot and setting and everything. My problem here is more practical; there never seemed to be Chat RPs going on way back when. Considering my lengthy absence, this may have changed. <p>---
My head moves around inside the bag, it's not like I'm drinking through my actual eye socket.</p>

[FF Fanatic 80]

Quote:

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And, I'm to understand that it's our patriotic duty to RPGWW to GM or whatnot. But, I'm not willing to "get better" at GMing through guessing games and running RPs which aren't fun for the people involved--especially /me/. I care about me a lot.

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I never intended this to be a "OMG YOU MUST GM!!!111onerp" post, if that's the impression I'm giving here. I understand some folks prefer not to GM, for completely valid reasons, and that's perfectly fine. I was just curious what reasons folks had for not doing so, since we tend to focus on general "How to fix it" a lot instead of more specific "What is the issue to begin with".

As far as the lack of feedback, I'm probably guilty of that myself, and if I've done that to you as well Dia, I apologise. I generally don't like to give negative feedback, because I worry about discouraging the person when I do so. But I do realize now, that lack of giving criticism can be just as bad, because the person won't learn what does and what doesn't work. So I've been working on giving better feedback of late, and hope it's been helpful to a few folks.

I'm not sure if that's the case for others as well, but thought it would help to give my reasons for lack of feedback. *shrug*

Anyways, we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread discussion *fwip*

Edited by: FF Fanatic 80&nbsp; at: 11/3/05 17:40

[pd Rydia]

Dave: Nah, I know that's not what you're after in this post. I do get the pressure sometimes, though (and given it, myself).

I did want to call attention to that particular post of Brian's--whatever the actual intent, the words say something clear and it was pretty belittling, and it'd be awful nice to avoid a repetition.

Beyond that particular incident, I'm not really interested in fault. The way I see it--we're not perfect, we're not always watching every word we say, we're not mind-readers, and for that matter, we're not even who we were a few months ago, so there's not much point in holding some petty grudge against someone who may well have changed phenomenally. Unless something can be accomplished from blame (ex. the cookies caught on fire, now we can't eat cookies, let's avoid this in the future by not setting the cookies on fire), then it's not much of an issue for the present or future.

I generally don't like to give negative feedback, because I worry about discouraging the person when I do so. But I do realize now, that lack of giving criticism can be just as bad, because the person won't learn what does and what doesn't work. So I've been working on giving better feedback of late, and hope it's been helpful to a few folks.

That /is/ a problem (one I feel I've been a part of). These days, I tend to take people at their word; if someone says "Hay I want feedback" then I'll give them a bit of round feedback, postive and negative. Though, if I'm completely unsure...it never hurts to ask what kind of feedback someone is looking for.

On the flipside, the clearer the GM is about wanting feedback, and what kind s/he can handle/wants. I know, I used to worry about my emotional 'fragility' warning people off from giving honest opinions, whether or not I could actually handle them. <p>

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<div style="text-align:center">dictionary.com | encyclopædia dramatica</div></p>

[LadyDragonClawsEDW]

My big thing is..well, laziness. I'd like to think I come up with interesting enough stuff (Ryuuzoku affair and my Plague Knights saga come to mind). I know generally what I want to have happen and I usually leave things open for people to figure out how to solve the problems on their own without resorting to NPCs. My problem is..well..

Laziness. And scheduling. I've never completed any of the board RPs I've GMed, which is a shame because I had neat stuff planned. A bunch of the chat RP things I was running never finished, the Pirates of the Letter A and Ryuuzoku affair for example. Ryuuzoku affair really fell apart because there were too many people in it that couldn't all get on at the same time.

As far as feedback goes, I've gotten some, both good and bad. I never really let it stop me. <p>--------------------

"If I have to grab a man's ass, you can smile." -Tolaris</p>

[Nakibe]

Laziness is my big thing with a lot of stuff, so I don't even think about it, really.

The BIGGEST reason that I don't GM more often is simply the fact that I honestly think I suck. I mean, when I plan for RPs I tend to get this big picture view in my head of what I want to do, where the RP is supposed to go and stuff. And then when RP happens I realize that I've forgotten to actually plan out ANYTHING between the start and the finish. I mean, its not like I can't DO stuff, I just have no idea how I can get from point A to point B.

Its actually worse for me in chat RPs because there's a sort of expectation of instant play or something. For all of you people that have had to put up with me in Machine Knights? I have a wonderful combat-dice proggy that I use and stuff. The reason why combat took so long is that I would BS stuff up for the later RPs RIGHT THEN AND THERE.

Also, there's the fact that in the end I DO want to GM something epic or something that makes you go "WOAH", or maybe do some of the cool stuff that I read about in novels. I want something that impresses ME, you know? And honestly I haven't given myself that yet. Thus, every time I get an idea, whether its good or not, I have to ask myself if its good, can I DO anything with it? And more importantly, if I have the drive to finish it.

[NamagomiMk0]

Well, as people know, I just NOW am starting to GM. Personally, this is resulting in me feeling more than a little nervous about things in general. Why?

I do have a general framework plotted out. My issue is more of trying to keep the players interested, keep them enjoying it, and so on. This is partly, I guess, what would deter me in the first place. Besides procrastination and all. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>