Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

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wkz
 

Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

Unread postby wkz » Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:58 am

To make sure I don't disrupt Igea with an out-of-place character, I would like to ask the following:

Is there a concentration/hometown/country that speaks the Shakespearen Old English? Something like:
"As you, good folks of RPGWW will have guessed, thy world will soon be graced by another abomination from the cesspool that is wkz's mind. Thy courtesy will be sorely tested to thine limits"


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Shinigori V2
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Re: Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

Unread postby Shinigori V2 » Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:37 am

Only one thing comes to mind here:

I don't think basing a character around Olde English is a very good idea. <p>
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<div style="text-align:center">Why Barius has no family reunions.</div></p>Edited by: Shinigori V2&nbsp; Image at: 6/24/04 4:39 am

wkz
 

Re: Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

Unread postby wkz » Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:47 am

Just a note:
The new character's going to be a (inflated-selfworth) knight. Full of thees and thous and airy-airs....
Just wanting to get the language out of the way before all the other stuff...


The Great Nevareh
 

Re: Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

Unread postby The Great Nevareh » Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:29 pm

You can very easily accomplish that without drawing on Shakespeare. There is plenty of good, clean, not-too-difficult to interpret English without grabbing at the arse of a poet who happened to use archaic language WHEN HE WROTE HIS STUFF 400 YEARS AGO! A person who speaks in such wording would much more likely be a very eclectic and eccentric actor than a stuffy knight that's full of himself. <p>"There is great disorder under Heaven, and the situation is excellent."
-Mao Tse-Tung</p>

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Jak Snide
 
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Re: Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

Unread postby Jak Snide » Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:07 pm

I can see upper class sorts from anywhere speaking like that to raise themselves above commoners.


FlamingDeth
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Re: Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

Unread postby FlamingDeth » Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:29 pm

I can't. For one thing, it's so obsolete that anyone with any sort of intelligence would know, full of themselves or not, that it's completely unused and makes them sound rediculous. Also, it's established that Common and English are not the same. The pronouns he speaks of might not and may never have existed [edit: Or they're still used and we just use the plain English equivelent in RPs!], and it'd be kind of unlikely for Enlgish and Common to have followed the same linguistic development.

And that's what you call putting too much thought into it. <p>
<hr width="70%"><center>"Quoting yourself in your sig is dumb" - FlamingDeth</center></p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=flamingdeth>FlamingDeth</A] at: 6/24/04 5:30 pm

Choark
 

Re: Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

Unread postby Choark » Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:15 am

Well despite what F-deth thinks about people with intelligence, I so happen to know there are people who go to pains to talk in a very old style manner to elevate themselves over the common person in real life here in England.

And if it happens in real life, now, in this day and age, then it can happen in on Geara. And as we're using plain english to represent Common then there is no problem with using Old English to represent Old Common at all, as its only a representation of it and not what its really like.

And thats without putting too much thought into it at all. <p><div style="text-align:center">Image </div>
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Idran1701
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Re: Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

Unread postby Idran1701 » Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:23 pm

I have to agree with Cho on this one. What's wrong with assuming that, the same way that Common is "translated" into English, that older versions of Common wouldn't be translated as...well, technically, not Old English, just an older version of English. Old English is closer to around the 12th or 13th century eras, and used a slightly different alphabet. It'd be barely comprehensible to people speaking English today, since it predated the introduction of French root words into the language, and was a purely Germanic tongue. But that's beside the point anyway. <p>

"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin</p>

wkz
 

Re: Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

Unread postby wkz » Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:30 pm

Hmmm.... Much Food for Thought...

Question 2 on the Olde English: Nobody speaks the version on the language in the "world"? Or is it just that most, if not all, of the speakers of Olde were shunted to the side and hidden in the background?


Uncle Pervy
 

Re: Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

Unread postby Uncle Pervy » Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:32 pm

You know. Old English isn't so much thees, thys, and thous as it is another tongue entirely. You're thinking of Middle English, I believe.

Alsosuch. To date, there is no region or particular social class that makes a point of using such a dialect. Mostly because, as Mr FD said, it would sound really dumb. Most folks trying to set themselves apart here use more complicated English, rather than archiac English. <p>
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Choark
 

Re: Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

Unread postby Choark » Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:24 pm

The old English I was thinking of is the one you can find in those books by.... And here's where I forget my A-level English. I *think* its Chaucer. I think.

It was about people on a pilgramage, and he wrote quite a few of them. Believe you me tranlating it could give you a headache. It was also remarked that at times the language sounded what you'd expect a child to talk like in some ways, though obviously when disgussed in A-level you had to say that in a more refined manner.

Anywho, yeah, Thats the old English I was thinking of. Not just adding Thy and Thou and saying come Hither children and all that (which is by and large complete and utter bollocks, but its fun bollocks so you'll never hear me complain about it) and I do know people who try and use it as a way to elevate themselves above the common man.

I also agree its a bloody stupid thing to do to try and do, but it is done. Then again I'm in a country where some Christian group dress up as Flanders and meet every Sunday after church or something, and even try to talk like him... So, you know, oddities are abound. <p><div style="text-align:center">Image </div>
<div style="text-align:center">Cowgirl fanboy - Barbarian Ninja - Expert Mouse Catcher - Holder of the Iron Glasses Of Doom!</div></p>

Idran1701
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Re: Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

Unread postby Idran1701 » Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:05 pm

Chaucer would actually be Middle English, I believe. Old English's even worse:

"Cnut cyning gret his arcebiscopas and his leodbiscopas and Þurcyl eorl and ealle his eorlas and ealne his þeodscype, twelfhynde and twyhynde, gehadode and læwede, on Englalande freondlice. And ic cyðe eow, þæt ic wylle beon hold hlaford and unswicende to godes gerihtum and to rihtre woroldlage." - Snippet from a royal document from King Cnut (King Canute), AD 1020.

"Canute the king greets his archbishops and his provincial bishops and Earl Thurcyl and all his earls and all his people, rich and poor, ordained and lay, in England, in friendly fashion. And I assure you that I wish to be a gracious lord and devoted to the laws of God and to just human law." - Translation of above.

Edit: Also, I was wrong on the time period for Old English. It was actually 8th to mid-12th century. Middle English was 12th to mid-15th century. <p>

"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin</p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=idran1701>Idran1701</A] at: 6/25/04 5:11 pm

wkz
 

Re: Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

Unread postby wkz » Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:45 pm

Woah.... That's old English? I guess I meant middle English.... and even then, not the complete, correct directory. Just enough to get by the fact this guy's an ass.

Quote (The Great Nevareh): "You can very easily accomplish that without drawing on Shakespeare"

Hmmmm.......
*re-thinking of character in progress*



The Great Nevareh
 

Re: Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

Unread postby The Great Nevareh » Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:54 pm

Okay, I think we're missing the point to a degree...
You can throw whatever you like around as much as you like. This is, quite literally, imaginary-land. I'm certain that whatever you would like to do, the universe would most likely be able to bend and amend itself to suit what you require. Theories and self-consistency aside, it comes down to ease-of-use and understanding. If it generates a lot of unneccesarily unwieldly language and if it is difficult for people to understand without direct and time-consuming examination, it is not easy to use. If it is not easy to use and it is not aesthetically pleasing, then it isn't really going to work. Since this is imaginary-land, the question isn't "Could it be?" since it quite clearly can. We have a guy who transplanted the entire mentality of a city of bloody-minded magic-users with their own direct elemental system into this game. The question should be more along the lines of "Would it work without driving people mad?" <p>"There is great disorder under Heaven, and the situation is excellent."
-Mao Tse-Tung</p>

Banjooie
 
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Re: Question: 'Ye Olde English Dialects

Unread postby Banjooie » Sun Jul 04, 2004 1:28 pm

^_^

...


^_^


Yeah, that was me. ^_^ <p><Chat> <Matto says, "What's up?"
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Angst."
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Drama."
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Betrayal."
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Plushies."</p>


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