Art Discussion: References

[Deeum]

References.
Cheating or not?

This topic appeared on a Oekaki forum I visit often.
What's your opinion on the matter?
Are references a form of cheating and or taking the easy way out?

Mine:
Not at all. References help artists out with difficult poses and forshortening that he/she normally have trouble with. <p><div style="text-align:center">

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[Teh Kev]

Well, the few times I do draw, I almost always have something to look at as an example of basic structure of body and such. So I guess I don't really think its cheating in any way, I think having references is a good thing. ^^ <p><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

[Lord Hatsuma]

Pssh. If that were cheating, then drawing any kind of still life/landscape/portrait would be cheating. Drawing things from real life is part of art. It's supposed to look right.

Just as long as you put your own style into it, it's A-OK by me.

~Hatsuma

[Deeum]

For future reference.. i'm -not- saying its cheating. >_>; <p><div style="text-align:center">

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[FlamingDeth]

Anyone who says it's cheating get's kicked in the groin, or whichever other body part seems good and painful at the time. <p><center><table border=0><td></td><td>

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I don't know what the hell this thing is, but the chicks dig it.

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[PriamNevhausten]

Buh...I simply cannot fathom why anyone would call it 'cheating.' I mean, shit. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

[Choark]

I think I've said enough times on how I use other art for help now and then that I don't view it as cheating.

Though, personally, I feel a lot better about the art I don't use reference for then what I do, but thats personal and I certainlly wouldn't condeem anyone who does use reference material.

In fact, as others said, its entirely part of the artists growth. The ability to look at and draw what is front of you is part of the artists gift. It look at and modify what is in front of you is also part of that. It's how artists learn and improve.

When I have more time to myself again I already pln on sitting outside in the city and quick sketch people I see as some odd plan of trying to imrpove. <p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
<div style="text-align:center">Cowgirl fanboy - Barbarian Ninja - Expert Mouse Catcher - Holder of the Iron Glasses Of Doom!</div></p>Edited by: [url=http://pub30.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=choark>Choark</A]&nbsp; at: 12/11/03 5:19 am

[Nekogami]

Leonardo studied under a master, i.e. someone that he could probably learn from/study from. So I'm sure he had to use other peoples work before he mastered art, his IQ withholding, he certainly knows a lot.

No artist can simply blindfold themselves from the artworld and think that that's all their is. They have to try out different things in order to learn and that might mean using references.

It's the same with any profession.

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<div style="text-align:center">
Nekogami Character Pantheon--Deviant Art Gallery--LiveJournal</div>
<span style="font-size:xx-small;">Words to live by:
OMG PRIAM: ninja sex would be neither felt nor seen by either partner
OMG PRIAM: each would just suddenly need a smoke
Choark: Good luck there. You'll have to shit out darkness and send people into oblivion.</span></p>

[SALSAlys]

References are darn useful, since... yeah. Makes difficult poses much easier, and while drawing from your head is fine and dandy, being able to observe a model or photograph makes sure that proportions don't get wonked up.

[bunnygirle78]

sometimes I look at manga and other anime to get ideas on body positions and how to make them my own. I don't think that there is anything wrong with getting ideas, just don't copy the art exactly.

There are alot of traditional poses in anime. Like the famous crouching position or falling pose. <p>

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"What would you do with out me Daxter?"
Jak from Jak 2

"Well Jak, I wouldn't be standing two feet tall, covered in fur, walking around a sewer without pants. . .god I miss pants."
Daxter from Jak 2</p>

[ValkyrieShan]

Well, I'm almost always prouder of stuff I manage to do entirely on my own. The problem with that is I rarely manage to make it very interesting without some sort of reference for pose or detail. =/

I think references are great to use (obviously) and even better if you learn something from them.

[BrainWalker]

Just out of curiosity, what brought this up? Did someone actually come out and say that using references is cheating?

Shit, without previous examples or experiences to draw from, how the Hell is anyone supposed to learn to do anything? <p><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>Edited by: [url=http://pub30.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=brainwalker>BrainWalker</A]&nbsp; at: 12/11/03 7:35 pm

[Uncle Pervy]

In writing, you listen to how people speak, and look at how those who are good at it write in order to learn the craft.

I don't see how art is different. You look at reality, and you look at the techniques of the skilled in order to learn the craft. <p>------------------
Greetings, large black person. Let us not forget to form a team up together and go into the country to inflict the pain of our karate feets on some ass of the giant lizard person.
</p>

[Deeum]

BW:
infact someone basically DID call it cheating.. I have quotes from someone commenting on a picture the artist admitting to using a reference to!
:D found at Fearsome Oekaki.

<span style="color:red;">I did -NOT- say this. Just so we're clear.</span>

Quote:

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oh no, people mentioned reference! i say you shouldent use reference for an actual piece, as it IS cheating, but its ok for practice. and i like this, the coluring is very nice and so is her face. i like how she matches the pokemon too!

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Same person~

Quote:

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in my opinion if you want to draw something, you should be able to draw it from your head, if you are an artist. ive asked in lots of art communities( ok, 2) and EVERYONE seems to use reference. if they put a lil more time into their work theyd be able to draw just as good on their own, though. reference is just the easy way. sorry.

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:D just so you know how it started. <p><div style="text-align:center">

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[BrainWalker]

The grammar nazi side of me discounts everything that person says given that they can't be bothered to say it properly.

Aside from that, I'm fairly certain that this person is either a moron outright, or just doesn't understand the concept of using a reference but not copying. Which is pretty stupid. <p><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

[SALSAlys]

Side-question:

How well does this person actually draw? >=P

But seriously, I'll admit; I'm also prouder of the pictures I do without using any reference, but I fail to see how something that makes life easier is a 'cheat'. I mean, at that rate it's cheating to sharpen pencils in an electric pencil sharpener instead of using a knife to whittle it out by hand.

[Deeum]

www.fearsome-oekaki.com/p...7cutekitti
not very well since she refuses references. :P
but thats me being mean. <p><div style="text-align:center">

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[FlamingDeth]

I guess that Leonardo cheated when he made the Mona Lisa.

That jerk. <p><center><table border=0><td></td><td>

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I don't know what the hell this thing is, but the chicks dig it.

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[RedEye Dragon89]

In my opinion, it's kind of stupid to say that referencing is cheating. It would mean that almost every portrait painted, landscape sketched, and giant robot animated would be nothing but a fluke. Sure, I try to draw without the use of references, mostly because all of the girls at school refused to pose nude, XD, but unless one can utilize them it is very unlikely that they would be able to improve that much.

As for this person, let him/her/it believe whatever it wants. I just think that it is just sticking a roadblock on its road of progress.

[SALSAlys]

Semilinked to topic, and in regards to RED:

I think that's why I draw girls better than guys. =D Anytime I need a reference, I just look in the mirror!