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In America, you generally get more respect for resisting without the use of violence.
See the long chapter of American history that we like to call "the Civil Rights Movement." <p>
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In America, you generally get more respect for resisting without the use of violence.
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I don't normally acknowledge repeated ad hominem attacks...
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No attack, son. It's humor. You remember that, don't ya? The funny jokes with the ha hahing?
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Some of us are arguing in favor of the cops, some (okay, most) are arguing in favor of student rights.
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They have that "Holy shit, this could happen to me and I gotta stop it" mentality.
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There's more to it than which parties I identify with, and I'm sure you're aware of that. There are many of us (and you should feel free to point us out on your own) who have brought in logical discourse and justification for what we believe aside from, "Hey man, I'm sick of the Establishment holding down our college students!"
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You know, we recently banned two people for this. Should I ban you?
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I was just initially horrified that people would say "that stupid prick of a guy deserved police brutality. Isn't this video a riot! HAW HAW!"
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In England (as far as I understand only) by the way we don't have tasers but we tend to do things more civially.
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Tangent: Dunno if this is actually the case over here or not, but I heard it's illegal to pin someone down who's broken into your home while waiting for the cops to arrive. Unless you have a "good" cause to (like he's a loony with a knife).
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if he threatens me or my family.
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I'm curious how it works in England. If someone breaks into your house and you call the cops are you then allowed to try and keep them there till the police show up?
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It's a good thing that you aren't king of the US, Seethe, and that no one else is, either, because a lot of the reforms that have been put in place in the last century exist to do things like prevent employers from intimidating their workers. UCLA's campus might be private property, but would you stand up for mall cops if they tasered some guy who wasn't being violent if he refused to leave because the mall was closing?
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why I should allow people the due process of law (aside from "because I want due process of law"), or why it's intrinsically bad to physically hurt people if they're being annoying. This shouldn't be too hard to do, and if someone does it at this point I will give in since I'm not really extremely attached to my position.
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It's a good thing that you aren't king of the US, Seethe, and that no one else is, either, because a lot of the reforms that have been put in place in the last century exist to do things like prevent employers from intimidating their workers. UCLA's campus might be private property, but would you stand up for mall cops if they tasered some guy who wasn't being violent if he refused to leave because the mall was closing?
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Take Rawls' Veil of Ignorance. If you have to decide the ethicality/morality of a particular decision, you must do so as if you had no idea where you'd fit in. If you would make a decision to avoid being tased, you ought to avoid decisions that involve other people being tased in the same situation. If you would rather be asked to leave or face a subpoena, you cannot ethically advocate use of force before that.
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Kant's Categorical Imperative: "Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it would become a universal law." If you wouldn't want everyone behaving in a certain manner, you do not have special ethical license to do it either.
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Utilitarianism: Usually summarized as valuing the search for the greatest good for the greatest number of people. You do admittedly have a conflict here in that the first choice they had to make was between the safety of one student and the safety of many students. However, they violate this criterion when they ignore an option that neither harms this student nor ignores the threat he may pose. They ignored normal legal recourse.
Brian brought up legal recourse, and if we're going to talk about utilitarianism, then we should discuss avenues that would have caused harm to fewer people. If the kid is on campus without an ID, he's trespassing. Prosecute him for it. Happens all the time without the need for electrical coercion. The law is still enforced, and nobody looks crazy. Sure, the instant gratification of tasing the obnoxious little git is lost, but I repeat. The law is still enforced, and nobody looks crazy.
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