your Dark Side

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Wolfbelly
 

your Dark Side

Unread postby Wolfbelly » Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:57 am

Everyone has a negative side to them. Some people have a negative side that's more deep than others. For some, it's more violent, more manipulative, more using, etc.. It's impossible for us to not have this dark side to us, because it's naturally in opposition with our positive side, and is necessary for us to recognize our good.

Now, A few questions on this. When you have these negative emotions pop up, how do you deal with them? What is your general response to them? And how do they affect you in your daily life? Also, would you be willing to stand up and proclaim aspects of your dark side? <p>Image</p>

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Besyanteo
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Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby Besyanteo » Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:29 am

I have a tendency to become very mouthy when I'm angry, and start sayying things that are fairly baseless and/or unintelligent. More recently I've been trying to reign that in by simply rereading things before I post them.

When talking face to face, that's not so easy. I'm less vocal, but everyone suddenly knows I'm in a bad mood and, largely when talking to my sister, I'll start an argument just to vent frustration. Which is counter-productive, because Kristen thinks she has a monopoly on logic and knowledge.

I've never really tried to manipulate or use anyone to my benefit, or even just their detriment. Angry or not, intentionally manipulating someone for the purpsoe of harming them just always felt below me. I was once violent, to a degree, but that was before my hormones were being treated and more balanced. Kristen wanted to show me how someone's wrist was less capable of being hurt than other parts of someone's body, and told me to squeeze her wrist. I did, and she laughed and told me to do it harder. Next thing I can remember is myself glaring and Kristen crying as I was crushing her wrist with my thumb and index finger. I lost time in there somewhere, as though I'd dozed off somehow. Still bothers me alot today.

In general, I try to be a little more laid back and calm. It doesn't always work, but I don't know what else to do, really. At this point, the most impact these thigns have on me is eventually they'l build up on me, and I'll silently stress to the point of indigestion. I'll probably have an ulcer by 30, without any good excuse to have one. =P <p>
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PriamNevhausten
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Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:55 pm

My first reaction is to fall back on my old stoic-philosophy days and say that 'negative emotion' is redundant.

Well, that's not true. My first reaction is to say that it depends largely on WHICH 'dark' property manifests, as to how it is dealt with.

In any case, we can assume certain things are in this box: rage, such as the road kind. Generally, when I find someone's driving actions to be simply abhorrent, it ticks me off quite a great deal. Of course, I can't go and smash my car into theirs--partially because even if I could rig it so that it would legally be their fault, I still would need a car in my daily life, and my liability-only insurance would damn well not pay for a fresh one. Perhaps later on in life I will buy a massive tank of a car, get it some collision coverage, and not-so-subtly show a few tailgaters the error of their ways.

Did I mention that I sometimes deal with that particular emotion by fantasizing about indulging it?

Sadness...this one is old hat to me by now. Having variants of depression for years, and living in circumstances that promote these states, has trained me to simply ignore it. It's just a fit of depression and self-loathing--'walk it off,' as it were. I go to bed to pass the time. I take a bath. Just something like that where I can just let some time pass without really feeling it. That usually clears it up pretty well.

A lot of people might say that I become extremely bitchy and impatient when stressed. This is true, I suppose, but it is less of a side effect of dealing with stress and more the actual *way* of dealing with the stress. Generally this is at work when seven or more things need taken care of immediately, and I will sprint through the store to find what I need, ignore coworkers who ask me questions that do not matter, and flat out tell coworkers to go away if I am busy with something more important than whatever reason it is for which they are obstructing and/or nattering me. This makes me effecient at the cost of friendliness--some, thus, say this is my dark side, but they are generally clueless.

The worst is the sort of getting-a-crush type feeling. Every man has experienced this to some extent: A good-looking girl will just be talking, and mention offhandedly that she is single. And every guy who hears this will sort of quirk his eyebrow and say, "Oh, really. How interesting." Now, couple this with my moderately obsessive personality, and you have what amounts to a bad situation. This is another one of those ones that has happened so often that I've trained myself to ignore it, and it will go away on its own. Which it does and has, every time. Because if it gets a single claw into my sanity, bad things happen. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

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Nakibe
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Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby Nakibe » Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:24 pm

My "Dark Side" of sorts is something I've been off and on dealing with for years now, really.

The first of the reactions I can have when I'm really pissed off at you is the urge to do violence upon the offender. When I was little this was a rather strong urge, to be honest. I'd be ready to throw things, hit people, and generally break stuff. And faces, lets not forget faces. I can't say I've ever blacked out like Jason apparently does when angry. No no, I see everything, and part of me would like to start with That bone Over There and work onwards till we run out of things to break.

Oddly enough, I dealt with that face of sorts by joining in Karate. At the time I thought I was going to learn how to kick ass BETTER, and that turned out to be somewhat misinformed. I can only blame watching old Bruce Lee movies for that idea. He was cool, and I wanted to be like him. But training mellowed me out just a bit, and I had more control over that level of anger. Its rare that I LET myself get that far nowadays, which may or may not be a bad thing. Not in the sense that I should break more faces, but rather that I should actually GET ANGRY more than once in a while. *shrugs*

If I'm not ready to hurt someone, though, or I have cooled off to JUST under boiling, I can at my worst get manipulative. Thankfully not too much has come of past ideas of this sort. With luck nothing will ever come of this. Both of these being bad is why I try hard (and don't always succeed) not to dislike people strongly. Things they do? Yes. The person? Best not. <p>
*lurks*<br /><br />Warning: "This dead guy is dead. Judging by what I can see through the nice casket window, he's PROBABLY dead because he didn't duck. Say your prayers, make your peace, but ALWAYS remember to duck, folks." - Reverend</p>

Wolfbelly
 

Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby Wolfbelly » Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:50 pm

Nakibe: I'm very interested in your reasons for getting angry at people previously and then not getting as angry as recently. Why do you think it was that after the martial arts training you were more laid back around people/not inclined to violence? To better understand this, would you be able to tell me what your personal internal reaction was towards your violent intent prior to the martial arts training?

Bes: So, to summarize, you generally feel bad about your negative reactions and try to resovle them by thwarting them at the source. Is that correct?

And Priam: Correct me if I'm wrong, but for you, you generally deal with the negativity of depression by letting it run its course and then picking up where you left off? Is that correct as well? <p>Image</p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=wolfbelly>Wolfbelly</A] at: 9/19/05 21:58

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Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:53 pm

More or less. Yes, I let it run its course, time-wise, but generally I try to avoid being there while it does so. Hence the sleeping, or bathing, or some other way to just ignore the passage of time. Gaming.

There are a scant few people around whom I find myself completely unable to be depressed. This is good, because otherwise the depression would likely be a more regular occurrence. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

Archmage144
 

Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby Archmage144 » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:52 am

You know, Wolfbelly, if you're going to ask us to open up and psychoanalyze the forum, are you ever going to post your "dark side" at any point? <p>
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Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby Besyanteo » Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:32 am

Luj: Essentially. <p>
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Wolfbelly
 

Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby Wolfbelly » Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:45 am

Sure, Archie.
Quote:
Now, A few questions on this. When you have these negative emotions pop up, how do you deal with them? What is your general response to them? And how do they affect you in your daily life? Also, would you be willing to stand up and proclaim aspects of your dark side?
Previously, I'd berate myself mentally for being such a retard/freak/incompetent/etc. for allowing whatever negative emotion popped up to pop up. I'd try to basically drive the offending thought/emotion away because it was not who I wanted to be. In my daily life, this would result in me having moments of silence where I silently freaked out inside, and a few years ago, I just instead started tensing up my right arm in response to these sorts of negative emotions. Sort of ... "storing" them away, so to speak.

Would I be willing to stand up and proclaim some aspects of my darkside? Generally, no. There's some aspects of myself that I'm not overly proud of, but that exist within me that I feel other people would be horrified to learn. So, my deepest, darkest aspects? I'd more than likely not want to reveal. HOWEVER, considering that you've just called me on it, and how I am asking people to open themselves up, I will ... because I'll have to eventually do it some time.

Ever since I was young, I was intensely enamoured with the concept of voyeurism. I would fantasize about being a peeping tom, of all things. In grade ... 1, I think, I fantasized about being a rapist before actually really knowing what exactly a rapist was (turns out I didn't want to actually violate women, just dehumanize them and turn them into objects. Why? I dunno. still a mystery). When I grew up to grade 6 and discovered my sexuality, I became intensely withdrawn and repressed regarding my interractions with women. It was pretty much impossible for me to view women as people, I could only view them as objects.

That repression and general awkwardness around women resulted in me being a social fucktard for a good long while. This social fucktardery resulted in me being a reject through junior high and high school. At 17, miracle of miracles, I got a girlfriend and fucked that up royally. There's a lot of shame and negativity regarding that that I'll gloss over. You can all just look over my formative mindset and connect the dots. After the relationship failed in an extraordinary way, I went through about a year and a half worth of mental anguish where my inability to deal with the aforementioned shame and negativity almost resulted in a complete nervous breakdown. Then, I realized that I was pretty fucked up and started resolving things.

So, by then I'd amassed about ... Oh, I dunno, 6-12 years of shameful fucktardery and was seeking to resolve my issues. Angry self-recriminations came up almost daily for me, so often that I resorted to the "out of mind, into arm" resolution. That kind of worked, but I knew it wasn't a solution. Then, miracle of miracles, I got another girlfriend and she was instrumental in guiding me out of my messed up social awkwardness. Then, I left Edmonton. Then, I wound up in Vancouver and worked at a self-improvement place. Now, I'm asking about all of your experiences with self-negative shame and emotions and how you deal, because I'm seeking to figure out a process.

So ... does that answer your question?

Priam and Bes: How has that been working for you so far? Have you noticed if the offending thoughts/reactions have decreased or worsened? Has anything else decreased or worsened? <p>Image</p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=wolfbelly>Wolfbelly</A] at: 9/20/05 1:48

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Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby Besyanteo » Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:01 am

Things haven't worsened really, but neither have they markedly improved. I express less of my anger these days, but I will find my mind wanders around that anger for a while instead. I don't lash out, I just seem to imagine lashing out. ... repeatedly.

I've found that, as infrequently as I have a chance to do it, it does help alot to pour it into something: Prose, art, laser tag, an intense game, hell even doing the dishes (broken some glasses that way though...).

Laser tag is especially nice, because you're running your ass around in the dark and hunting people... without all the death and incarceration afterwards. Also consider working out! I hear lots of people talk about how the weight room lets them work out all their stress and anger. <p>
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PriamNevhausten
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Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:49 am

I'm still alive, no? Something must be working right. As far as the frequency of said badness, I *think* it's been decreasing, but then again I have less and less free time on my hands as of late, so I have less idle time to become introspective and have existential crises. The stimuli for those depressive episodes are still there, I just am not permitted the time generally to revisit them. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

Wolfbelly
 

Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby Wolfbelly » Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:47 am

Hmm. Okay. New question. Have any of you guys resolved any of your issues? And if so, how? You've all provided examples of dealing with them, but I'm getting the impression that these only temporarily resolve the issue. Any permanent resolutions? <p>Image</p>

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Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby Besyanteo » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:31 am

So far? No. My problem isn't severe enough to seek professional help, so I don't go out and seek any tools to make a long term solution to my anger problems. I just kinda try to deal with them on a day to day basis. <p>
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Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby Wolfbelly » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:38 am

Alright, thanks man. You have been most helpful. <p>Image</p>

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Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby Besyanteo » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:40 am

Always! <p>
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PriamNevhausten
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Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:51 am

As far as I see, what I am doing is a permanent solution. Once one learns a method, one may exercise this method at any time. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

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Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby Nakibe » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:22 pm

Luj:
I'm very interested in your reasons for getting angry at people previously and then not getting as angry as recently. Why do you think it was that after the martial arts training you were more laid back around people/not inclined to violence? To better understand this, would you be able to tell me what your personal internal reaction was towards your violent intent prior to the martial arts training?


It actually was for me a combination of things. The training itself with its regimine of various physical excersizes as well as forcing us to just SIT there in uncomfortable positions for the better part of 30 minutes sort of kept me distracted from my "RAWR ME SMASH NOW" thoughts, as well as any thoughts of becoming Bruce Lee anytime soon.

Also around this time I had a really nasty nightmare-ish thing that I couldn't force myself to wake up from involving basically a fight in a weird mushroom field against an "evil" version of myself. Had it for a couple of nights in a row, and even though I never lost, I never won either, and that started worrying me for a while. Weird, but true.

Also it was around this time that I started to realize that simply fighting people or things wasn't a way to solve problems or get what I want. A lot of my anger at that age was either directed outwards towards peers who didn't want to treat me as fairy as I'd liked or just plain selfishness in some cases. Although after all of this I rarely fought anyone, the memory of me trying to beat up folks actually helped me through middle and high school, since many people at these schools knew me. That and a couple more outbursts in the 6th grade made people think that I'd fly off the handle if they bothered me too much.

As far as my control of my anger now? I honestly can't say that it is as controlled as I like sometimes. In many cases I just sit back, tell myself that whatever it was that was making me angry wasn't important, and generally politely ignore that it happened afterwards, or try to. If I get VERY angry I tend to go to sleep on it. Most people say not to go to sleep like that, but for me it means that by the time I wake up, I'll be able to THINK and not ACT.

As far as my personal internal reaction to my anger when I was little? There is a point reached where I honestly am not THERE per-se. I feel nothing, to be perfectly honest. The part of me that thinks is just watching things happen, maybe pointing out one or two things to do next. Emotionally I didn't FEEL much of anything. Instead, I sort of drowned myself in my anger at the offending person.

In the end, though, my training didn't change my reaction nearly as much as that dream did. The ending of that set of dreams was actually weird, and sort of drives me to this day. But in a sense the "horror" of those dreams was the idea that I was somehow BECOMING that other person. It really freaked me out. So the combination of the peace I was getting in Shotokahn Karate combined with this sudden guilt over what I was slowly working towards and made me change myself. The anger is, of course, still there. Just that I tend to direct it other ways.


Wolfbelly
 

Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby Wolfbelly » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:22 am

Nakibe. Thanks. One observation that I'd like to make. Do you think it's possible that your better understanding of physical discipline (karate) provided you with a deeper awareness of its effectiveness and ineffectiveness, which manifested itself in your dreams/nightmares?

Priam and Bes. Have either of you seriously considered experimentally approaching your issues from a different angle to see if you could improve your dealings with it? And more importantly, would you consider approaching your issues from different angles? <p>Image</p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=wolfbelly>Wolfbelly</A] at: 9/23/05 1:23

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Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby Nakibe » Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:05 pm

Based on the timing of the dream sequence and the way it ended, it had nothing to do with my karate studies manifesting in my dreams. Rather... eh. Might as well tell you this one, as I've told other people here, I think.

Fourth night of having the dream, we went back to our usual thing. Fighting. Weirdass epic kung fu battle in a giant mushroom field that reminds me today vaguely of Super Mario Bros. games. Anyway, we tired ourselves out, and both pretty much dropped at the same time. I don't exactly remember how the discussion started, or who said what... but both of us basically agreed that fighting for control of one mind was just too detrimental for both of us. I woke up this last time with a truce being called, essentially. Actually managed to freak me out more than the OTHER dreams, but hey, the nightmares stopped. <p>
*lurks*<br /><br />Warning: "This dead guy is dead. Judging by what I can see through the nice casket window, he's PROBABLY dead because he didn't duck. Say your prayers, make your peace, but ALWAYS remember to duck, folks." - Reverend</p>

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Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby Besyanteo » Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:01 am

No, I really haven't, though I suppose I ought to. I'll think about this. <p>
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PriamNevhausten
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Re: your Dark Side

Unread postby PriamNevhausten » Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:22 am

Have you seriously considered experimentally approaching your issues from a different angle to see if you could improve your dealings with it?
Not really, but then again the process of learning a way to deal with it at all was an exercise in experimentation. I've found a solution that works, and though I will, on occasion, run it through the mental grinder a few more times to see if I can process out some other solutions, the realm of 'experimentation' is too unreliable to be practical, when a perfectly workable solution is already at hand.

And more importantly, would you consider approaching your issues from different angles?
Possibly, depending on what exactly that means. I don't consider the rage thing to be an issue--bottling that shit up can be worse than just shouting at someone while you're in the car when it happens. And as far as the depression goes, I've analyzed it over and over, and processed the circumstances and ramifications and conditions so many times that I could give a dissertation on the many layers that consist and cause my depressive episodes without even thinking all that hard. As far as I am concerned, I have exhausted at least 99% of ideas that can be generated with regard to that issue, and found that the possibility of solving the problem instead of dealing with it is, effectively, out of my hands. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

The Maltese One
 

Hm!

Unread postby The Maltese One » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:01 pm

Okay, so... I won't lie- I have an extremely well-developed Dark Side, and I embrace it fully. This may seem strange to you, but I suppose what it is is pride.


I am a very, very proud person. I do not let anyone destroy my dignity, or somehow insult me. And I will go to any lengths to get myself back. This includes whatever I want it to include, be it manipulation, backstabbing, punching someone in the face, or whatever.

I do not want to change this. This may seem odd, but I don't. I have, on more than one occasion, shut up people who pissed me off by hitting them hard enough. In the school before, no-one used to get me angry, because they knew of what I'd do. Did that make me less sociable? No.

So, see above.


Wolfbelly
 

Re: Hm!

Unread postby Wolfbelly » Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:52 am

Intriguing. So you never feel shame or regret for your actions? Or anything for that matter? <p>Image</p>

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Re: Hm!

Unread postby Banjooie » Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:28 pm

Hm. I'm a guy whose main existence on the internet consists of making fun of people for varying reasons.

What the hell kind of a darker side does a guy like me /have/? <p><Chat> <Matto says, "What's up?"
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Angst."
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Drama."
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Betrayal."
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Plushies."</p>

Wolfbelly
 

Re: Hm!

Unread postby Wolfbelly » Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:41 pm

Fucked if I know. What do you feel ashamed or guilty about? <p>Image</p>


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