Final Fantasy 13

[Molokidan]

I couldn't find a thread for the game here...but I'm really curious as to what everyone thinks of it. I finished the main game today, still have to finish extra missions and max out my Crystarium, but aside from the atrocious characters and story, I loved it. Possibly because I went into it coming from a long streak of Dragon Quest and Etrian Odyssey, so it was a nice change of pace. But I thought the battle system was fun and engaging, and the visuals were spectacular.

Still, though, makes me nostalgic for 4, 5, 6...what is it with RPG storylines these days? I can still sit down and play Final Fantasy 3/6 and marvel over how engaging a plot 6 had. It can't just be because I was a kid when I played it. With each coming day I feel more and more of a generation gap (and I know I'm younger than quite a few of you... )

[PriamNevhausten]

I've been trying for a while to figure out just why FF6 was so good, and I have yet to come up with an even moderately comprehensive answer. All except maybe three of the characters were thin like paper, and the battle system wasn't exactly deep. Maybe the story itself was that good, independent of the characters who were involved in it? That's my working theory.

Haven't actually played FF13 over here, been waiting to get a decent deal on the PS3 version--which is to say, my partner wants to buy and play it but we're not really brimming with cash. Everything I've read and heard basically jives with what you're saying, though: It's super-pretty, except when somebody opens their mouth to speak.

[Molokidan]

Wow, it's still that expensive over there? I guess because it came out recently? I got it for 1900 yen over here, when it was 8800 retail.

[BrainWalker]

I really have absolutely no interest in this game beyond the fact that the protagonist is female. I hear it's stupid-linear and it spends literally half the game teaching you how to play it.

Of course this is complete heresy and therefore not entirely useful.

[Idran1701]

I really have absolutely no interest in this game beyond the fact that the protagonist is female. I hear it's stupid-linear and it spends literally half the game teaching you how to play it.

Of course this is complete heresy and therefore not entirely useful.

It's too bad there aren't any rabid fanboys around here, or that typo would be especially appropriate.

[Molokidan]

It's true, that aspect can be very frustrating...not to mention that the first 10 chapters (the 'tutorial' chapters) are rather easy, so you don't even have an opportunity to really learn the intricacies of the battle system yourself, since the game doesn't require you to. And when there is something new you need to do to beat an enemy, it almost always holds your hand and tells you what to do.

But really, chapters 1-10 are half-movie and half-game, so if you aren't ready to sit down and watch literally hours of cutscenes, then I wouldn't attempt it anyway. There are literally some parts where you run your character probably the equivalent of six feet across the ground just to act as a breather before another long series of flashbacks and dialogue happens.

Chapter 11 and on is awesome, though!

[Idran1701]

And how many chapters long is the game?

[Molokidan]

13. I would say that 1-10 compose 30 hours of the game (around 5 of those being cutscenes) and 11-13 are 20 hours, unless you're rushing. And this is not including the 'sidequests,' if you can even call them that, which are just 64 'go kill this enemy' missions passed out during chapter 11. That's pretty much all there is to the game.

[PriamNevhausten]

And yes, the game is still US$60 over here. It was on sale a little bit ago at $40, but that was the X360 version only, which is unacceptable in my domicile for various reasons.

[BrainWalker]

Wait, why is that unacceptable? Unacceptable enough to not be worth a savings of $20?

Also, I must have been more tired than I thought when I first came into this thread because I just now noticed this:

...but aside from the atrocious characters and story, I loved it.

It is difficult for me to understand how this is even possible when discussing an RPG. I've heard that the battle system is pretty awesome once they actually let you use it, apparently 30 hours in, but is it really awesome enough to make up for an RPG whose plot and characters not only fail to engage but are, in fact, an actual detriment to the overall experience?

I mean, I already know the answer for me, personally. I can forgive a lousy plot if the characters are strong, but I'm not going to slog through 30 hours of JRPG drivel and barely interactive coddling and movie-watching to access the part of the game that's half-good. I'm just... I dunno, I guess I'm curious about the opinions of people I actually know rather than distant critics and random people on the internet.

[KingOfDoma]

The first (I presume) fight with Barthandelus is CURSED.

Of course, the first time I went in, I got my ass handed to me. I went, "OK, this is standard. New boss, and from what I can tell, standing between me and a whole new way to play the game. Of course he'll be hard. I just need to level up, keep to a strategy, and eventually I'll beat him."

So, I went back to the previous room, and started kicking ass. Every now and again, I'd go at him with a new paradigm, a new strategy, but still I'd hit a wall and he'd kill me. But I wasn't deterred.

For a while.

A vacation was coming up, and I wanted to beat this guy before I left. So I dove in again, killing and killing and doing well. I stuck to my strategy of keeping Lightning buffed and healed, and she was staying alive long enough to rezz the others. I saw Barthandelus' Thanatosian Smile attack coming up, so, I buffed Lightning up to the max, and got ready, just getting her health to max before the attack hit.

... and hit...

... and hit...

... and hit...

UNTIL SHE WAS DEAD.

That's right... she died even though she was FULLY BUFFED AND AT FULL HEALTH.

... I went on vacation angry at that game.

BUT THAT'S NOT ALL, OH NO, THAT'S NOT ALL.

A few WEEKS after returning from vacation, I decided I'd give FFXIII one more try, one more kick at the can before utterly embracing it or dropping it forever. So, I went to grind levels again, get those last, lingering, seemingly unimportant crystarium levels that I must have needed to win.

And in the middle of a battle, before I'd gotten a chance to SAVE my progress, and completely unbidden and unannounced...

The screen went black, said "Please wait..."

...

AND EJECTED THE GEE DEE DISC.

EJECTED THE GEE DEE DISC.

I am a man of faith, but I am not prone to flights of fancy, proclaiming miracles here and there without a clear mind behind it. But if ever there was a sign that I was NOT meant to play or beat this game, THAT was it. I am DONE with FFXIII. Or, at least, it's done with me.

A shame, too. Sazh is awesome.

[PriamNevhausten]

The 360 version is unacceptable because of Apple's motion sickness thingy, which for some assboggling reason isn't tripped by most PS3 games. Possibly the hardware has tools that make panning around a 3D environment smoother? In any case the motions of the camera are more gradual, and as such we don't get resultant projectile vomit. I'd say that's worth $20.

[Molokidan]

It is difficult for me to understand how this is even possible when discussing an RPG. I've heard that the battle system is pretty awesome once they actually let you use it, apparently 30 hours in, but is it really awesome enough to make up for an RPG whose plot and characters not only fail to engage but are, in fact, an actual detriment to the overall experience?

Well I dunno about that. I mean, look at games like Demon's Souls, which has a paper-thin story, or Dragon Quest 9, which does have a story but absolutely NO dialog or development for ANY of the characters you use. Obviously people who value those aspects most will be disappointed, but I've learned to pick and choose the aspects in games I focus on. I mean, I've plugged more than 100 hours into Demon's Souls, and loved every minute of it, but would I mention to people when recommending the game that the story was also great? No. Sometimes I don't need a reason to kick the shit out of huge monsters. I'd rather have a game that plays well and no story than a game that plays OK with an OK story. In FF13's case, it's a game with a great battle system and a story, so it's a bit unbalanced in that regard.

I'm not saying that the battle system is good enough to make up for the 30 hours. That is a huge problem, I think. But I do believe it is possible to discuss RPGs while completely throwing away the characters and story.

The first (I presume) fight with Barthandelus is CURSED.

That is a pretty hilarious story, KoD. That's strange that you had so much trouble...did you try setting the ATB to Wait? I died on him once because he casts Death Sentence on your character if you fight him for over 20 minutes, but then I fixed up my Optima setups and beat him the second time. That's weird that he is kicking your ass so much, since the game pretty much controls your stats at that point. Although Sahz does, sadly enough, have the worst base stats in the entire game.

[BrainWalker]

The issue is not that the story isn't there, or isn't a big deal. I've enjoyed many video games in many genres where the story was an afterthought. But this is a Final Fantasy game. The story is supposed to be a big deal. And according to eyewitness testimony, the story is not just forgettable, it is actively bad. That is a big difference. I'm not playing Disgaea 2 for the story, I'm playing it because the mechanics are fun to mess around with. But I'll never be able to play Kingdom Hearts because I just can't ignore how bad the plot and the characters are. One of the big reasons I couldn't get into FFXII, and FFX for that matter, is because I just absolutely could not give a shit about the protagonists of either game.

I can ignore a story that's wafer-thin and exists only as a pretext for the game. At least that kind of story has the decency to shut up and get the Hell out of the way of my game. But I can't ignore a bad story that presents itself as something worth paying attention to, because it just won't shut up, and actively assaults the good time I was having before it started blabbing.

[Molokidan]

I can ignore a story that's wafer-thin and exists only as a pretext for the game. At least that kind of story has the decency to shut up and get the Hell out of the way of my game. But I can't ignore a bad story that presents itself as something worth paying attention to, because it just won't shut up, and actively assaults the good time I was having before it started blabbing.

Good point there. I constantly found myself pondering while watching the cutscenes, "What were they thinking?" Some of the body gestures were even more exaggerated and strange than those from FF7, and the dialogue was far more cliched and cringe-worthy than those from any other game (except maybe FFX). I simply cannot compute how a company so smart enough to make such a cutting-edge, enthralling game can fail so horribly at writing a story. We're in an age now where the thought that videogames can be art is starting to be considered, or at least even pondered over, by non-gamers, but FF13's story is no better than some bad fanfiction written by a twelve-year old.

On another note, is anyone going to pick up FF14 in September? I swore off the game because of the $12.99 monthly fee.

[PriamNevhausten]

Important question: Does FF13 have a "Skip Cutscene" function like Kingdom Hearts? If so, it might merit getting the Metal Gear Solid treatment.

[pd Rydia]

If Final Fantasy 1 through 12 are LotR, Final Fantasy 13 is The Three Stooges. Party member with a frocobo? Fighting with a collapsible fishing rod? Saving your friends by driving straight through several ranks of foot soldiers with a motorcycle made of chicks (and giving them a cheesy wink while doing so)? That's some good times! It's...just a little more ridiculousness than you'd expect from a Final Fantasy.

Spoiler:

(Mike says: "Look again: your girlfriend is now diamonds!")

I will say that the music is a fucking tragedy. It's completely unremarkable trash and if you make the mistake of comparing it to earlier OSTs of the series, you'll cry.

[Molokidan]

I'm not sure if you can skip cutscenes the first time...but you can the subsequent times (including summons).

Dia has it right, pretty much...except I enjoyed some of the tracks. Not all of them by far, but there are some I could see listening to when not playing.

[BrainWalker]

For some reason, Dia's post actually raised my level of interest ever so slightly. At least until she got to the music.

Lemme tell ya, fishing pole was one of the weapons in Makai Kingdom, and it was fucking awesome. Not necessarily the most effective weapon, but super-useful as a way to move your enemies around the map.

[pd Rydia]

Motorcycle. Made. Of. Chicks.

[Molokidan]

Go-Kart. Made. Of. Bahamut.

[PriamNevhausten]

Potatoes. Made of. Ifrit.

[pd Rydia]

That sounds delicious. But I'm hesitant to ask who the cheese comes from.

[BrainWalker]

Well, you see, when a mommy cheese and a daddy cheese love each other very much they... they umm... Well, you see...

... they contact the cheese fairy. It's true. Don't bother looking it up, though. Cheeses have a strong oral tradition, and they aren't known for being tech-savvy. So, they don't write much down, much less post it to Wikipedia. I swear.

[pd Rydia]

Don't they know about podcasts? Geeze!