Smash Bros--

[WillBaseton]

I wonder how many people are bitching and moaning about how Little Mac is an assist trophy instead of a playable character? Man, you should have seen the guys over at GameFAQs bitch about Lyn, and I had never even heard of her before.

Believe me, it pales in comparison to the amount of bitching now that it's been confirmed that wavedashing is gone.

[PriamNevhausten]

Oh, they'll find something else to exploit. Give 'em time.

By which I mean give Nintendo time to finish writing the goddamned game. This thing has been hyped for, what, a year and a half now? I lost track.

[WillBaseton]

Well, the thing is, the game's in full demo form now, meaning it's pretty much done. Kojima himself said it was perfectly shippable back in July. As it stands, we've got a few months of Nintendo-based stalling (as is done with all of their releases), as well as tweaking of the online modes. I don't think they'll be adding anything major before release, everything's probably already done, we're just getting into full-on balance test mode now.

That being said, people will find exploits, but the reaction to the loss of wavedashing is just hilarious to me, since it seems that the 'pros' want Brawl to be Melee: The Expansion Pack, not an entirely standalone game. Oh well. We'll see, whenever the game actually comes out.

[Ganonfro]

Wait... People are complaining about Lyn? She's from a game that actually came to the states, so people can't really complain like they did with Roy... But if she's playable, I'm going to master her. Albeit she is rather obscure, she was one of the cooler people in the game(FE7) to me. And if it hasn't been said yet, 99% of GameFAQs' forum goers are the most mentally inept people online.

I'm more wondering if they're going to have an analagous character to Snake, like they did with Link and Ganondorf, or Roy and Marth... I think it'd be hilarious if Ocelot or Otacon somehow appears as a playable.

[KingOfDoma]

Gray Fox.

[BrainWalker]

Well, Lyn's an assist trophy. People were complaining because they actually expected a semi-obscure character from one portable chapter in an RPG series to make it as a PC.

I mean, you can hope for a longshot, but it's really not the sort of thing you can expect.

[Deeum]

Because I like to post links, too!
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/stages/stage15.html

[Ganonfro]

BW. Roy was a semi-obscure character from a portable chapter in an rpg series. Lyn wasn't THE main character, but she was one of the three for the game, so Roy does have that above her.

[Spleen]

Kevin from Seiken Densetsu 3 is going to make a surprise appearance as a playable character as well, I swear.

[BrainWalker]

BW. Roy was a semi-obscure character from a portable chapter in an rpg series. Lyn wasn't THE main character, but she was one of the three for the game, so Roy does have that above her.

Wasn't Roy a protagonist in two portable chapters in an RPG series? *shrug* Roy does sort of throw a wrench into things, although I'm not sure he's the best item to use in defense of Lyn considering that he's really only a fraction of a character. Here's hoping they bring Falco and Gannondorf back with unique movesets.

Anyway, you actually already touched on why Lyn wasn't getting in. She's not a protagonist. Virtually all the characters that have been/are going to be in Smash Brothers so far have fallen into one of three categories: protagonists, antagonists, and more recently, sidekicks. And by sidekick I don't mean "anyone else", I mean it literally; back-up (2P) to a protagonist. And even in that case, Diddy Kong and Luigi have been protagonists, too. The only exceptions to this are Peach and Zelda, who are extremly plot-centric, being essentially non-PC protagonists, and arguably Pikachu and his ridiculous child-self Pichu. Pikachu kind of falls into the "sidekick" category, mostly in the context of the anime, but it also seems to be the unofficial mascot of Pokémon, for whatever reason. Oh, and Jigglypuff is another exception, but every fighting game needs a Dan Hibiki. Especially if they're actually a good character.

So, yea. Lyn never really had a chance. Although it's cool to see her as an AT. At least, I guess it's cool... I've not actually played the game she's from. Or any of the Fire Emblem games, actually.

I should probably rectify that sometime.

[PriamNevhausten]

I would just like to chip in my two cents and say that Lyn is absolutely totally sweet in the game she comes from. She's the first major character you run into in the GBA Fire Emblem, and every time she hits a crit (which can be very frequently, if you use the legendary sword she finds early in the game effectively) you feel very bad for the enemy. Well, okay, maybe you don't feel bad for them, but it's very unfortunate for them nonetheless.

[pd Rydia]

Peach is the protagonist in Super Princess Peach, and a playable character (back-up protagonist?) in Super Paper Mario. Can't speak much for Zelda, having only played two of the series' games and finished one. I think Pikachu is thrown in to sell the game to the rabid Pikachu fans.

That contingent kinda almost makes me feel bad that my game's Raichu ubers its way through most battles, but then I remember that I'm a twink and it's all okay.

[edit] Also also! That pictochat screen looks pretty sweet.

[WillBaseton]

Wasn't Roy a protagonist in two portable chapters in an RPG series? *shrug* Roy does sort of throw a wrench into things, although I'm not sure he's the best item to use in defense of Lyn considering that he's really only a fraction of a character. Here's hoping they bring Falco and Gannondorf back with unique movesets.

The trick about Roy was that he was put into the Japanese version of Melee to promote the Fire Emblem game he starred in...one that was going to come out right after Melee's release. He and Marth were supposed to be cut from the US version because nobody would know who they were, but Sakurai eventually relented and left them in. Marth was in because he's the 'icon' of Fire Emblem. Roy was in as a marketing ploy for Fire Emblem: Sealed Sword.

As for Falco and G-Dorf, totally agreed. Well, at least on the Ganondorf part. Give him his sword from Ocarina or Twilight and we're set. Falco...eh. Seeing how much Fox has been nerfed for Brawl, and the fact that Sonic has solidly stolen the "supa speed" slot of the roster...I don't think Falco's really needed anymore.

[Spleen]

STAGE BUILDER?!

[BrainWalker]

It doesn't look terribly robust, but it still looks like it'll be fun to screw around with on occasion anyway.

[glu-glu]

this is relevant

[Spleen]

Well I'm obviously not going by Glu's link, it even says that they have no idea if it's anything like how the stage editor will be.

[BrainWalker]

Well, this image gives a pretty solid representation of what to expect, and most of the features present here are present in the flash thing. Although it looks like you rotate all the parts in your pallete before you place them in Brawl, and there doesn't seem to be any represenation for the "enlarge part" feature in the flash editor.

And I'm not sure where the comment "You might not be able to rotate them in Brawl either." comes from, considering the big obvious "rotate all" button on the top of that screenshot.

I think I'm actually a little more interested what pops up in the user-created stages that get sent to your Wii. I'm sure someone out there will be able to create something novel and interesting with even the most spartan toolset.

[bunnygirle78]

I want this game if I can fight online, bwa ha ha ha

[Spleen]

I can't imagine online fighting working particularly well with Smash Bros. There's too much split-second reaction that needs to happen for the game to work, and I can't see that carrying over well to playing by Wifi.

Plus it's way too fun to trash-talk.

[PriamNevhausten]

Well, Virtua Fighter 5 apparently works very well across a wide connection, as does Halo 3. And Wifi, which by the way is an extremely silly-sounding morpheme--ahem, wireless internet is little different from a wired ethernet connection.

[BrainWalker]

It has been proven in recent years that online gaming can work efficiently enough for the fighter genre. The thing that worries me is that it's likely significantly more difficult to get a match with 4 people to run smoothly online than it is for a match with only two. We'll see when the game is released...

Anyway, this update is particularly interesting. It opens the gates for speculation on the possibility of 3rd party assist trophies unrelated to the already included third party characters.

You know, if you're into speculation.

[Spleen]

Isn't speculation where the girl uses--

Oh, wait, that's something else, sorry.

[BrainWalker]

Important new revelation!

[Spleen]

Yeah, when I saw that, I made an extremely unmanly noise, somewhere between "AWWW!" and "EEEEE!"

Don't tell my girlfriend.

[Ganonfro]

Spleen, if your girlfriend should never find out about you making those noises, why do you tempt all of us so?

And come on, stop lying to yourself. You're not a man, thus unmanly things are totally cool. You're a lesbian, after all.

[Justice Augustus]

I make those same sounds when seeing something cute, getting my nails done, or driving 18-wheelers. Does this make me unmanly?

[KingOfDoma]

Only if you listen to Weird Al. Then that reference works.

[BrainWalker]

So, no huge news, but I have recently discovered that a compliation of Sonic the Hedgehog music, "True Blue," has been released, and on that compilation is the supergroovy Angel Island remix from Smash Brothers: Brawl.

I've even got an MP3 link. Good stuff.

[Justice Augustus]

Oh god, the memories, the glorious glorious memories.

*Basks*

[WillBaseton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqXGdK4zAI

Hey guys, what's this? It's the intro video! Commence salivation protocols.

[Endesu]

Higher-res version can be downloaded here, too.

This pretty much confirms

Spoiler:

Ness

and

Spoiler:

Marth (who I hear is your 'prize' for beating SSE)

.

Also, according to leakers in Hong Kong,

Spoiler:

Luigi

is confirmed, as well.

[WillBaseton]

Higher-res version can be downloaded here, too.

This pretty much confirms

Spoiler:

Ness

and

Spoiler:

Marth (who I hear is your 'prize' for beating SSE)

.

Also, according to leakers in Hong Kong,

Spoiler:

Luigi

is confirmed, as well.

Rumor has it you get

Spoiler:

Marth for beating CLASSIC mode

, actually.

[Endesu]

Really! I've heard it the other way around.

I guess we'll have to wait and see for certain, then.

Also, GameFAQs whiners going on about 35-character roster rumors.

[WillBaseton]

Hey, I can feel their pain. Would YOU want R.O.B. as one of the fighters when there's at least a dozen other characters who deserve it more and don't totally suck ass? I don't mind 35 characters, as long as R.O.B. isn't one of them.

[Endesu]

Given that I'd even take Bomberman over R.O.B., no, I don't blame them, though I wouldn't terribly mind having R.O.B. as an AT or something like that.

Though, in a sense, I'd rather take R.O.B. as opposed to, say, Krystal or Wolf. Honestly? Fox and Falco are enough. Star Fox, to me, is a relatively low key Nintendo series, and really doesn't deserve to overshadow far more deserving series (Mother, Kirby, Fire Emblem, et all).

[Idran1701]

Given that I'd even take Bomberman over R.O.B., no, I don't blame them, though I wouldn't terribly mind having R.O.B. as an AT or something like that.

Though, in a sense, I'd rather take R.O.B. as opposed to, say, Krystal or Wolf. Honestly? Fox and Falco are enough. Star Fox, to me, is a relatively low key Nintendo series, and really doesn't deserve to overshadow far more deserving series (Mother, Kirby, Fire Emblem, et all).

Mother isn't a low-key series? It's had three games over the course of 20 years. Sure, they're pretty good games, but I'd have to call that low-key, honestly.

[Justice Augustus]

Where's my Falcon Punch? :(

[Justice Augustus]

Just found this picture of the character select screen on a discussion board. With each bit of info released it looks more and more authentic.

[Edit] Now found this picture which seems to contradict with the one above. Argh so confused! At least both suggest that

Spoiler:

FALCON

is in!

[Edit 2] This one seems to agree with edit 1 but is more complete.

[WillBaseton]

Well, the floodgates have opened. DO NOT READ ANY SPOILERED TEXT IN THIS POST if you want to keep the game's secrets a secret. The unlockable characters who have been shown off so far are...

Spoiler:

Marth

Spoiler:

Luigi

Spoiler:

Ness

Spoiler:

Captain Falcon

Spoiler:

Lucario

Spoiler:

Twilight Princess Ganondorf

Spoiler:

And...R.O.B. Fuck.

More will likely be coming, but this is what I've seen so far.