RPGWW

Now, this weekend, I sang in choir, and in the minutes betwixt warming up and going onstage, I conversed with my friend Rachel, the flautist. (We should have been in devotional, but eh.) Now, she expressed some surprise at the fact that Winnie the Pooh was in Kingdom Hearts, and somehow, the topic fell upon "Which Disney Princesses are the toughest?"

Eventually, lots of people who were also skipping devotions joined in, and we came up with this list:

Belle (Beauty and the Beast)
Pocahontas
Jasmine (Aladdin)
Ariel (The Little Mermaid)
Cinderella
Snow White
Aurora (Sleeping Beauty)

Yes, it's not a comprehensive list of princesses. That's what YOU freaks are for!

Add to it!

Rearrange it!

Justify both!

It'll be fun, I promise.

Also, if you want to put in a list of Disney PRINCES (a far harder list to populate), go right ahead. We were having trouble in that regard.

... oh, and they actually have to be PRINCES OR PRINCESSES. Not just regular Disney people. Related to royalty by blood or marriage. My only criteria.

Have fun! <p><hr />
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Technically speaking, I'm pretty sure Pocahontas was no princess. Unless we're considering Native American tribes to be independent monarchies.

I was going to call you out on Snow White and Belle, but then I reread the part about royalty by marriage. Stupid gold-digging Belle and Snow White. How come they get to be on there, but Mulan does not? Sucks =( <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

The chick from Princess Diaries. Followed closely by Anastasia and maybe Mulan.

It goes without saying (but I'll say it anyway!) that Disney just has some pretty weak heroines, period. I'd say it's gotten better over time, but still, many of Disney's best female characters are the ones too young (or too old) to put into romantic relationships...just because their personality isn't defined by overdone and poorly executed cliches. <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center">dictionary.com | encyclopædia dramatica
"he is the godamn batman! thats why! if he can breath in space you damn bet he can wear a panty on his head!" glu-glu</div></p>

... Princess Mia's in.

Mulan's not an actual princess.

And the film Anastasia was made by Fox, not Disney.

Oh, and let's toss... Tiger Lily from Peter Pan in there. Yeah. <p><hr />
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Buttercup was a pretty cool non-Disney princess.

I'll have to agree with Dia here, to be honest. A good number of the heroines in Disney films tend to be rather...weak, often forced into love stories where they play overdone cliched doormats that rival the likes of FFX Yuna and SO3 Sophia Esteed. The ones that were interesting...weren't royalty.

That's me being a loser, though. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

Well they are little kids movies, pretty much.

In my senior English class we did a feminist critique of Cinderella, but more interesting was the counterpoint to the feminist critique that took into account more versions of the story than Disney's. The girl in the story tended to fit whatever the culture in mind considered an ideal woman. The Chinese one was actually surprisingly well-educated and witty if I recall. Just one example.

The real question for me is this: If versions of fairy tale princesses are colored by what the culture in question considers an "ideal" woman, which do we blame? Do we blame Disney for daring to reflect a cultural expectation, or do we actually go ahead and bitch about the culture that produced it?

Most people like to bitch about Disney because it means they don't have to offer solutions. They can just whine about movies they watched as kids that encouraged them to idolize "weak" women. <p>-------------------------
"It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But the half-wit remains a half-wit and the emperor remains an emperor." -- Sandman "The Kindly Ones" </p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=kai@rpgww60462>Kai</A]&nbsp; at: 10/11/06 0:55

Kai brings up an interesting, and extremely viable point. The favoring of "weaker" heroines appears not only in Disney movies, but in a good number of movies produced in the United States, at least. Honestly, I don't like the cultural expectation for what seems to be a weaker, "fairer sex." Too boring, especially when one considers alternative portrayals that have been shown.

However, it's rooted deeply within western society in general; historically, it seems to be the rule that women have had less influence than men. Only recently have people gone to means to try and change this--I mean, women in the US have only gained the right to vote from 1920 or so onwards? The fact that this has only been recent states a lot. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>

Someone rank some fucking princesses before I move this into the discussion forum. <p>-------------------------
"It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But the half-wit remains a half-wit and the emperor remains an emperor." -- Sandman "The Kindly Ones" </p>

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1: Rozalyn, Daughter of Maou Zenon
2: Amelia wil Tesla Seyruun
3: Arcueid Brunestud
4: Aquaria XXVII
5: Martina Navritilova, or, err--however you spell her last name.

...You said you wanted somebody to rate some goddamn royalty. So I did.

Never said anything about them having to be on the list at the top, though. XP

Edited to spite Zero's following post. Besides; I was tired as hell that night. You would be too were you working that night on some presentation outline and a paper to try and undo a previous fuck-up. Additionally, the romanization of the name has so many potential spellings in English that sound the same way that it is pointless to be a spelling whore in this case. <p>"DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT US? OUR TREASURE MAY BE HEAVY, BUT WE ARE LIGHT AS WIND. ONLY MAGICS MAY HURT US, BUT ONLY WE KNOW WHICH ONES." --Omoikane, Digital Devil Saga 2</p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=namagomimk0>NamagomiMk0</A] at: 10/11/06 13:23

For being your number one you sure didn't spell her name right at all.

Nala gets number 1 because she's a lion.

Mira Nova has to be number 2. I don't know about the rest of them, but I'm sure they're not as tough as a Space Ranger.

I'd put Ariel as number 3 since she actually fights in your party in Kingdom Hearts. I've only played Kingdom Hearts I though.

Jasmine gets number 4 because I think she probably does some actiony stuff in that Aladdin cartoon.

The rest tie for number 5 because I've never seen them do anything violent so that means they're weak. Even Cinderella, because putting up with a lot of shit and not letting it get you down doesn't demonstrate any strength at all.

Edit: Hua Mulan isn't a princess, but she does get the conciliatory Tough Girl Award because I wanted to show off that I knew her family name.

Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=seethe347>Seethe347</A] at: 10/11/06 12:49

As much as everyone is willing to dump on Disney princesses, I don't think any of them is stupid enough to take the Toughness feat. Therefore, we must be talking about Magic: the Gathering, in which case I'm going to use the power of wishful thinking and say Snow White because if I had to shove any of them between me and an attacker I'd choose her. <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center">

RPGWW Wiki!</div></p>

You guys suck at this.

Number 1. Eilonwy: The Black Cauldron. Wiki link of info

Possibilly the most hard headed stubbon, funniest, bizzarely accented Princess from any Disney film, ever. She basically lead the Hero of the film by the hand from when they first meet each other.

Plus my sister can do the best impersination of her.

I don't care for the rest though Jasmine and Ariel will forever have my perverted vote. <p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
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which do we blame? Do we blame Disney for daring to reflect a cultural expectation, or do we actually go ahead and bitch about the culture that produced it?

Why must we pick just one? Disney and others might just be playing up to cultural expectations, but their products become culture. Chicken and egg, etc. etc.


Cho: Never watched it. :[ It wasn't popular much here. <p>

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<div style="text-align:center">dictionary.com | encyclopædia dramatica
"he is the godamn batman! thats why! if he can breath in space you damn bet he can wear a panty on his head!" glu-glu</div></p>Edited by: pd Rydia&nbsp; at: 10/11/06 16:12

I caught the middle to end of that movie recently. Kick ass. :( No, seriously. It's one of those few kid movies that I can say that I want to own. <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

CHOARK: She was crazier in the books.

I don't even want to know about the original Welsh mythology.

Exactly! She deserves to win.

In the welsh orginal she probably booted every other main character into the cauldron and ruled the world with a loving yet iron fist. <p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
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maybe im wrong, but i believe the chick from atlantis was a princess and pretty tough, but, meh, that movie sucked, or so i was told.

Mulan deserves to be an honorary princess....and be #1 <p><div style="text-align:center">
my deviant art thingy!
quote:
"-Lili! a deranged man is building an army of psychic death tanks to take over the world and there is nobody who can stop him except for you and me!
-Oh my god! LET'S MAKE OUT!"-Raz and Lili, Psychonauts</div>
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How about Princess Zelda? I'm thinking, most notably, the Wind Waker version, here; and the Ocarina of Time version to a similar extent. Or Princess Schala, she was pretty strong. Especially when she joined [bagel]. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

... Neither is Disney. <p><hr />
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Yang's wife. Technically a queen, but damn, she kicked some ASS.

WUTTOCK! <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center">dictionary.com | encyclopædia dramatica
"he is the godamn batman! thats why! if he can breath in space you damn bet he can wear a panty on his head!" glu-glu</div></p>

Do you see the point at which the thread stopped being about Disney? Get with the times, mang. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

Yea, any princess that's got your back in the final showdown against the big bossman at the end of the game is remarkably tough as far as I'm concerned.

Also, I actually forgot that Yang became a king. Shame on me.

Also also, the Black Cauldron was the fucking shit, and I have no idea why it wasn't popular over here.

Princess Peach's image has been changing over the years, and in fact it seems to change depending on what game she's in. She's never been physically the toughest girl on the block, but with the advent of Mario RPGs, her character has gotten to develop a lot more. We get to see that she actually has a brain, and a healthy chunk of determination. She pulls out some pretty neat strategizing in Mario & Luigi, and some espionage in Paper Mario. Plus, she totally takes off her crown and beats you with it in Smash Brothers. That's got to count for something, right?

You know, now that Daisy's been showing up more often, I kinda wonder if we'll ever get to see Sarasaland again. I mean, she's a princess too, right? So when do we get to see her do some princessin'? <p><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=brainwalker>BrainWalker</A]&nbsp; at: 10/12/06 9:21

You.

Are.

All.

Nerds. <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center">What's wrong with this ring?!</div></p>

*Slow clap*

Well done Captain Obvious (The true one master of pointing out the obvious)

To use a overdone simpsons semi-quote: Now go! Use your powerful skills of deduction throughout you land to right all those wrongs.

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I wasn't really considering Nintendo Princesses into the equation of disney princess toughness. Both Peach, Daisy and Zelda have kicked serious ass thoughout there time. Plus Diasy and Peach are top notch tennis players and golfers. I wouldn't want to mes with any of them. <p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
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Hey, at least I don't own a 9-11 reenactment lamp. <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center">dictionary.com | encyclopædia dramatica
"he is the godamn batman! thats why! if he can breath in space you damn bet he can wear a panty on his head!" glu-glu</div></p>

Really?

I brought 2 and flick paper airplanes at them. <p><div style="text-align:center"> </div>
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I'm worse than both of you for laughing at that.

Heh. Paper airplanes. <p>-------------------------
"It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But the half-wit remains a half-wit and the emperor remains an emperor." -- Sandman "The Kindly Ones" </p>

TOTALLY UNRELATED TO THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD:

We used to have those streatchy, sticky gooey hand thigns that you could get out of vending machines at small stores and arcades and such, and me and my sister would play a game with them; We would both make paper airplanes, and we would take turns, one of us throwing them, the other trying to knock them out of the air with the stick hand, using it like a sticky whip. It tore some of them in half, to get hit and suddenly ripped through the air by the stick hand. Fun stuff. :o

... And yeah, I laughed at Cho too. What the hell. =D <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

Cho and Bes shame me for not knowing how to make a decent paper airplane. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

Lunk to an image/guide/blah on making paper airplanes.

If this doesn't help, I'll teach you when I get there on the 26th. :o <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

Coming in late, now let's see...

If we're going purely by a KH standpoint, Ariel would have to be first because she's the only princess that actually winds up in the party and has actual attacks and stuff.
Belle would be second 'cause she elbows Xaldin in the stomach and gets away from him, which made me crack up.
The rest, save for Poccahantas, can vary since they get nothing but kidnapped in the games.

Taking out of game stuff into consideration, only Jasmine would get a notably higher rank because she kicked ass in the Aladdin cartoons.

Actually, I've always found it much easier to fold the paper in half lengthwise as the first step. I mean, you're going to have to do it eventually anyway, and it helps you ascertain the center of your piece of paper better. Symmetry ftw! <p><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

...ANYWAYS


I'd say Rosa was better than Yang's wife, you know, actually fighting against the end boss and all. Seeing how she married Cecil and became the Queen of Baron, that's close enough to princess to me.

Also, Princess Zelda from the cartoon series was totally better than Link, since she wasn't retarded. And used a bow.

...though I don't want to mention her, Xena also would be pretty damn tough compared to all the rest, being a Warrior Princess and all... Or even Kitana from Mortal Kombat...

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Also, Princess Zelda from the cartoon series was totally better than Link, since she wasn't retarded. And used a bow.

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We need to listen to this man. He speaks the truth.
That and I've always hated most of the Zeldas from the games (Except Minnish Cap and Wind Waker). <p><div style="text-align:center"><hr />
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Yeah, but Rosa gets kidnapped, which is a HUGE pet peeve of mine.
Not Wifey's fault she's too NPC to fight the end boss. <p>

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<div style="text-align:center">dictionary.com | encyclopædia dramatica
"he is the godamn batman! thats why! if he can breath in space you damn bet he can wear a panty on his head!" glu-glu</div></p>Edited by: pd Rydia&nbsp; at: 10/17/06 20:49

Additionally, Faris from FF5, who is technically a princess, wins my top spot.

actually, all princesses are inferior to Mint, from Threads of fate. period. <p><div style="text-align:center">
my deviant art thingy!
quote:
"-Lili! a deranged man is building an army of psychic death tanks to take over the world and there is nobody who can stop him except for you and me!
-Oh my god! LET'S MAKE OUT!"-Raz and Lili, Psychonauts</div>
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