I ganked a computer just to tell you all this.

[Sage]

FF4 is coming out for the GBA. You will be able to substitute Yang, Cid, Edward, Palom, and Porom for your party when you go up against Zeromus.

DISCUSS.

[Deeum]

Already out and already playing it. <p><div style="text-align:center"><hr />
</div></p>

[Archmage144]

Cid really, really sucks as a character, combat-wise, so he can stay in the waiting room.

I would have a hard time getting rid of everyone in the final party except Edge, who I do not care for; anyone in the chat the other night knows that I was hacking my FF4j ROM like a madman trying to replace him with a more useful party member because I was sick of the stupid ninja taking up space. At one point I even considered replacing him with Dark Knight Cecil. Unfortunately, my attempts at putting Golbez in my party were in vain and Edward displayed a sadly large amount of suckitude, which is disparaging, as I had heard very good things about him at higher levels. Perhaps by "higher" the people in question meant something on the order of "80."

Palom actually has better casting stats than Rydia, level-to-level, until after level 70 or something (it's possible to max out all of Rydia's stats consistently, making her uber at everything and giving her insane damage with her whip from the back row--screw magic). However, he misses out on the power of Bahamut and can only equip rods, so he would only be useful if you used his Focus (or whatever it's called) ability for several rounds before casting tier 3 magic, which is still Wall-able. I think Rydia might ultimately win out there.

Porom loses to Rosa for a lot of the same reasons, but might actually be more viable than swapping out Rydia.

Anyone who would swap out Kain for any reason should be shot.

Cecil is mandatory. <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center"></div>

</p>

[Besyanteo]

I should note that, around level 60, Yang does the damage bare handed that Edge can't do with his ultimate weapons, and has about 3k more HP than Cecil does. Or, that's the case when you clone him into your party in the game cart. I don't know if they canged him any for the GBA or not. <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

[Elitegamer7539]

My problem with Yang is his pitiful defence. His super high HP almost makes up for it, but coupling a low base defence with a very restricted armor selection makes for a pretty big weakness.

That said, he'd probably be more useful than Edge unless you'd stocked up on some good throwable stuff.

Also, is the GBA game hard or easy type? If it were the former, I'd be more eager to buy it. <p><hr />____<span style="color:fuchsia;font-family:helvetica;font-size:x-large;">t(</span><span style="color:black;font-family:helvetica;font-size:x-large;">'.'</span><span style="color:fuchsia;font-family:helvetica;font-size:x-large;">t)</span>____
Kirby is not amused.</p>

[Banjooie]

why has noone mentioned that EDWARD CANNOT BE STOPPED <p><Chat> <Matto says, "What's up?"
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Angst."
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Drama."
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Betrayal."
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Plushies."</p>

[Archmage144]

If you mean the stop status, I dunno, that never occurred to me and almost no enemies cast Stop anyway.

His "Poet" armor does prevent Silence, though. You can buy more of those in the Village of Mist IIRC. <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center"></div>

</p>

[Banjooie]

....Brian, you do know he ignores defense. <p><Chat> <Matto says, "What's up?"
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Angst."
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Drama."
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Betrayal."
<Chat> <Prince_Herb says, "Plushies."</p>

[PriamNevhausten]

And does proportion damage. Yes, this is known. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

[Besyanteo]

Edward is bad if you plan to use him as a fighter.

Edward is awesome as a tank. He can be targeted with spells while hiding, but not hit. He can not die while hiding. Ever.

Ever. He's your easy way of never dying, so long as you stock up on Life potions. ... That's his only redeeming quality that I know of, though.

I'd only use Palom or Porom if I wanted to use White/nuke twice. <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

[Archmage144]

A note on Edward and his "ignoring defense."

Shaun was in chat (God knows who else was) when I was screwing around with FF4 hacking the other night and swapping characters in and out in an attempt to figure out who kicked the most ass.

Edward's stats and stat growth are marginally worse than Edge's, to note, although Edward has absurd growth potential after level 70. This is not really that important when considering character viability since the game is easy to beat at 55-60.

The reason I bring up Edge's stats (as people in the chat may remember) is that whenever I edited my save file to change Edge into someone else, his stats did NOT change, meaning that whoever I hacked in would have Edge's level 50-something stats instead of their own. In Edward's case, this means he would have had BETTER stats.

Anyway, I brought in Edward, conjured up some gear for him, and threw him into battle. With better stats than he would have naturally at level 50, and armed with his Dreamer harp, he did about 300 damage to common enemies (enemies with maybe 15-20,000 HP). Not really much better with the Lamia harp or whatever his second weapon is. Sadly, he cannot equip the Twinharp/Echoer. It is possible that he might be able to equip it if it is forced into his right hand slot via hacking, but I don't count that as legitimate. He is also able to equip some of the dagger type weapons, but if he were to do so, he would not be using a defense-ignoring harp.

Don't you have to bring Edward out of Hide to use an item with him?

Random thought, since you never get to test this in-game...I wonder what happens if Cecil is set to Cover a Hiding Edward...

Edit: Before you ask, Edward's stats and multipliers DO affect his damage; if it is a flat percentage, the percentage is still based on his stats. I know this because I decided on a whim to increase all of his stats and multipliers to their maximum possible values. When I did so, his attacks dealt 9999 damage. <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center"></div>

</p>Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=archmage144>Archmage144</A]&nbsp; at: 12/28/05 21:24

[Besyanteo]

... I wanna learn to hack roms. ;-; ... Thought first I sorta really need to get my roms back. <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

[Idran1701]

Yeah, but _everyone_ has absurd growth potential after level 70, since levels start with random stat boosts after that point, so you can just save-reload before a level to make sure you get the max boost and not one of the ones that actually reduces some stats. Or does FF4j differ on this? I know this is the case in the American version. <p><hr />
"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
</p>

[Nakibe]

Actually no. Only Eddie has absurd growth potential. And of the main four you end the game with, only Rydia has the opportunity to potentially max more than 1 or two stats.

Eddie ALWAYS gains at least 1 stat at level up, and unlike everyone else, NEVER loses them. His "Best" levelup? +4 All stats. <p><span style="font-size:small;"><hr />
Currently idolizing - Roger Bacon, Shadow Hearts
Likes : Forbidden magics, Determined people, His teacher
Dislikes : Stupid people, Church officials, People that prey on the weak
Method of Destroying the World : Feh. God can do it for me. >:{
Becomes Super Powerful When : ... well F***. When ISN'T he?</span>

"Lunatic? The sages of EVERY age were called that! Let HISTORY decide whether my actions were good or bad. For now, we must forge ahead!"</p>

[Reako Somner]

In some versions the Twinharp IS equippable on him. It's attack power? 255. Cuts straight through defense of all forms, this includes Jellies/Puddings etc. It is noticably not equippable in ANY way in the GBA remake, the music note icon next to it noting it as a harp weapon is no longer there; it's a key item. Perhaps it existed as a weapon so some devs could have some fun with Edward, I dunno.

As for the GBA remake, he gets a harp of similar power in a certain location, the token Bard power harp, Apollo. With this, Edward's damage is very much better, also to note, he tends to take low damage from magic, in particular, in my fight against Zeromus, he took the lowest damage from Big Bang.

As for Yang, he is also good against Zeromus, who only has magic attacks. They can only do so much damage, damage Yang tends to be able to take 3-4 blows of. This makes him a great item healer, which was neccessary in Hard Type mode to some degree.

Palom got nerfed pretty bad. He doesn't match Rydia as well as he used to in mid-level, and the lack of a cast time on his spells was fixed. Yes, it's true Rydia has Bahamut, but for me, Palom could do far more damage with Nuke, and was faster to boot. Alot of his stats got lowered in the remake, however, making him only a backup caster, something you don't need

Porom is pretty good, actually, as usually Rosa is too busy casting Cure3-4 to keep the party alive to cast White/Holy. With Porom replacing Edge as a healer, Rosa is free to DEMOLISH Zeromus with White/Holy for 7000-9999 damage.

Everyone has some sort of use except Palom, unless his magic damage is better than Edge's throwing stuff damage. Palom *does* have higher MDef too, come to think of it...

[Nakibe]

In short, it sounds like everyone IS better than Edge, quite literally.

HA HA.

[KingOfDoma]

... I would pay good money if someone drew him being spanked by Shadow. <p><hr />
<div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

[Shinigori V2]

...Dude, didn't someone record some of Reako's commission ideas from Sugoicon? Some of those were awesome.

All I remember is Ultros and Gilgamesh giving eachother, like, a billion high-fives. <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center">What's wrong with this ring?!</div></p>

[Sage again]

I shall have to get this, I shall.

On another note, I've heard nothing good about Cid...but this does not surprise me. Still, he gets Thor's Hammer or something, doesn't he?

Maybe someone should make him and Edge have a battle to the death on their game, just to see who will win.

[Besyanteo]

The way I heard it, Cid was neither great nor horrible. He just was. He was someone to toss in if you wanted a rounded, not-Edge character.

... No, I haven't heard anything good about Edge. =D Except for throw, which is dependant on your buyying hella expensive throw items or giving up good weapons for one good hit.

Or, you know, cheating. Which I do. Mmmm, thrown Exaclibur... Starts to feel cheezy the third time oor so you do it. <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

[PriamNevhausten]

All this crap about Edge makes me sad. I got to see him first in that Final Fighting Fantasy fanwork thing, and that was pretty goddamned sweet. And then I played the game, and I was like "Holy shit, Edge is such a fucking dickhead." And now I find out that he isn't worth a shit in the game mechanics either! What the hell, Square? What the hell? <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

[Archmage144]

Edge is kind of like a really violent yard sale. His primary purpose is to throw shit away that you no longer need in hopes that somehow getting rid of it will benefit you more than having it. <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center"></div>

</p>

[SALSAlys]

Der Mage's summary amuses me and gives me giggles.

[Elitegamer7539]

The problem with Edge was that the folks who were designing the characters tried to do too much with him.

First off, he gets Ninjitsu magic. Elemental attacks that hit all enemies but are so weak that a level 2 spell from Rydia will probably be more useful. One that causes either stop or paralysis on enemies, the very few times it hits. One that allows your party to escape from encounters, just like holding down the R and L buttons. And then Blink except he can only use it on himself.

Next, stealing. That never works. And when it does, you could just go and buy a lot of what he steals (although stealing a shit load of alarms can save time for those going for Pink Puffs).

Next, throwing. Expensive. Rarely worth it.

Last, wielding two weapons. Like Yang, except these do more than add elemental/status effects to his attacks. However, his weapon selection is limited to light weapons with mostly mediocre attack power. In the end, this means the single, powerful weapons used by Cecil and Kain are just as powerful (moreso, even!), but still allow them to use shields.


Basically, Edge is kinda like the FF1 Red Mage. He can do a lot of shit, but he can't do anything well. Balance wise, he can't be allowed to have more power because of this versatility, but there are very few situations that versatility is actually valuable since you have five party members.
<p><hr />____<span style="color:fuchsia;font-family:helvetica;font-size:x-large;">t(</span><span style="color:black;font-family:helvetica;font-size:x-large;">'.'</span><span style="color:fuchsia;font-family:helvetica;font-size:x-large;">t)</span>____
Kirby is not amused.</p>

[BrainWalker]

I hear they kept "Spoony Bard", which, if memory serves, is not something they did for the PSX remake. Good idea on their part. <p><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

[Ganonfro]

....Wow, you guys are really harsh on Edge. I guess the fact that he tends to do just as much damage as Cecil and Kain when he joins the party just doesn't matter to you people, or the fact that he's the fastest character. Though maybe all of you just are tank whores or special ability nuts, Edge, though lacking almost all semblence of character, is a terribly good character to me. To solve my mutual love of all my original final characters, I just traded them all out for everyone but Cid. I never liked Cid. Silly and rambunctious he is, but he's crap. Totally.

Cid is stupid and can use scan. What the hell do you call that? Even Edward, or Gilbert if you use Namingway!, can split a potion 5 ways! :D Besides, a thief character is needed for all Final Fantasy games. Dragoons aren't. And Kain is a brooding sap, Mr. "ItotallywantRosabutcan'tdocrapduetojealousy", Feh... No wonder he was recruited by Golbez. He was so emo, he couldn't help it!

[Besyanteo]

In other news, in the final dungeon, my Kain does about 1.8k-2.5k per hit, and Edge does around 700-1k. Ganon fails to make me feel guilty, and telling us that Cid is crappy in terms of what's avaliable seems redundant. ... And is it just me, or are you taking this a little too seriously? <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

[PriamNevhausten]

I wish speed actually mattered in an FF game. I guess it could, if you cranked the battle speed down to the bottom, such that the time that things take to actually act out their turns becomes insignificant, but this makes the game super boring. <p><span style="font-size:xx-small;">"It's in the air, in the headlines in the newspapers, in the blurry images on television. It is a secret you have yet to grasp, although the first syllable has been spoken in a dream you cannot quite recall." --Unknown Armies</span></p>

[Ganonfro]

I'm sorry your Edge sucks Bes, but mine is still doing on par with Cecil in the final dungeon with me. I'm just putting my appropriate counter point. I also remember that Edge is fairly needed in FFIV from his being able to steal Dark Matter from Zeromus. I've never done it before, but I've heard it's almost a necessity in the hard mode version.

Also, Priam. Speed does matter, it's just terribly hard for you to get someone's speed up that high. In FFVI, you can get Locke's speed maxed out if you tweek out his levels with Odin equipped, which increases your speed at +1 each level. I've had him kill Chupon in the Colluseum because of his horribly fast nature. Sadly, I will agree that speed is pretty crap in FFIV, except in spell cast times.


Edit: I've found Kain is uber slow. And Cid's weapon gives him smiting powers, also he has the highest defense making him old, and bad assed as opposed to everything I claimed about him. My bad. Shows you people for taking me seriously. I'm looking at you Bes. *narrows eyes sinisterly*

Edited by: [url=http://p068.ezboard.com/brpgww60462.showUserPublicProfile?gid=ganonfro@rpgww60462>Ganonfro</A] at: 1/5/06 3:05

[BrainWalker]

I've always wondered what Kain would be like after climbing Mt.Ordeals. <p><div style="text-align:center"></div></p>

[not Tiny Harddrive]

Bah, you people whine too much. I ran away from just about every fight in the last 3 dungeons and then defeated Zeromus by accident. Stick that in your 20 sided pipe and smoke it. <p>"Hens love Roosters, Geese love ganders, everyone else loves Ned Flanders!"</p>

[Archmage144]

I have several personal possessions with twenty sides, but none of them are pipes.

You and I need to talk distributors. <p><hr /><div style="text-align:center"></div>

</p>